Login  
 
 
Go Back   Chamber of Secrets > The Writing on the Wall > Fiction > Science Fiction & Fantasy

The Works of JRR Tolkien



Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #321  
Old June 30th, 2011, 7:51 pm
horcrux4's Avatar
horcrux4  Female.gif horcrux4 is offline
Hogwarts Graduate
 
Joined: 5109 days
Location: Sheffield UK
Age: 74
Posts: 2,167
Re: The Works of JRR Tolkien

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siriusandme View Post
I have to say though, now that I've been listening to the BBC dramatization for a while, it's a bit hard getting used to the voices. I'm so used to the voices from everyone in the films these seem a bit... odd. Gollums voice for instance.. Or Aragorns voice. An Boromirs voice.. And the worst is Frodo's voice. I keep thinking "hey Bilbo, oh no Frodo". I guess the perfect thing for me would be to have this dramatization with the voices from all the film actors.
I heard the radio version when it was first broadcast! (I'm so old!) I thought Robert Stephens did an excellent job of Aragorn - there is something very different about his voice. I actually found Viggo Mortensen a bit disappointing when I first saw the film. I came round to him in the end though. Although frankly I thought he looked much better all dirty rather than when he was poshed up as King.

The thing that irritated me about the film was that Frodo was meant to be the oldest of the Hobbits and Elijah Wood was clearly the youngest. Pippin should have been the young one. I thought that came over better in the radio version.

But none of them compare with the books where the definitive characters live in my imagination!


__________________
Meet Mickey, my new kitten!
Quote:
"From this time forth we shall be leaving the firm foundation of fact and journeying together through the murky marshes of memory into thickets of wildest guesswork."
Albus Dumbledore, HBP
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #322  
Old June 30th, 2011, 8:23 pm
Siriusandme  Female.gif Siriusandme is offline
Fourth Year
 
Joined: 5234 days
Location: Not where I'd want to be
Age: 45
Posts: 699
Re: The Works of JRR Tolkien

Quote:
Originally Posted by horcrux4 View Post
I heard the radio version when it was first broadcast! (I'm so old!) I thought Robert Stephens did an excellent job of Aragorn - there is something very different about his voice. I actually found Viggo Mortensen a bit disappointing when I first saw the film. I came round to him in the end though. Although frankly I thought he looked much better all dirty rather than when he was poshed up as King.
Hahaha.. When I first saw the films I was all for Legolas and Aragorn didn’t do a thing for me. Now it’s exactly the other way around. And I agree with you, Aragorn does look better as Strider. Much better!!! I like Robert Stephens voice, it’s very distinctive. It reminds me of something but I can’t remember what. Jeremy Irons has a similar voice. Some actors just have really distinctive and nice voices...

Quote:
The thing that irritated me about the film was that Frodo was meant to be the oldest of the Hobbits and Elijah Wood was clearly the youngest. Pippin should have been the young one. I thought that came over better in the radio version.

But none of them compare with the books where the definitive characters live in my imagination!
This never bothered me much, but that’s mainly because I had never even heard of the books before I saw the film. Now.. when I read the books or listen to the dramatization I hear the voices from the films and see their faces.That’s okay... they’re good faces. It’s different for the HP films where I can’t stop comparing...


__________________


"I would rather have a prostate exam on live television by a guy with very cold hands than have a Facebook page."

- George Clooney, on his aversion to the social networking site.
Reply With Quote
  #323  
Old October 14th, 2011, 9:13 pm
canismajoris  Male.gif canismajoris is offline
The Forums Red Hypergiant Star
 
Joined: 5023 days
Location: əɹəɥ
Age: 36
Posts: 2,766
Re: The Works of JRR Tolkien

I was just reading a book that referenced various bits Tolkien borrowed from Old and Middle English texts (there's a surprising number of them).

What this author claims is that the Elves (if not they themselves, certain aspects of their culture or instances of their behavior) were based on the faerie folk in Breton Lais and the like. Specifically, there is a part in the story of Sir Orfeo where Orfeo is wandering through the wild following the kidnapping of his wife, and he hears or otherwise vaguely perceives a hunting party that is always pursuing, but never gaining any prey. This is reminiscent of Hobbit scenes in Mirkwood where the party notes horns off in the distance but isn't really able to interact with them.

The underlying idea being that the Elves exist in their own sort of universe, which though it does on some levels intersect with that of Men and others, is still separate. To paraphrase the book, the Elves just go about their Elfen business without much direct reference to the rest of the world. I think this origin helps to underscore the innate sadness in the Elves, because they are certainly of this world, but they lack the mortal grounding Men possess, and they are chasing, eternally as it turns out, something they will never catch. Not because they feel the lack of it, but because it is in their nature to go on and on.



Last edited by canismajoris; October 15th, 2011 at 6:36 am. Reason: just noticed a typo
Reply With Quote
  #324  
Old October 15th, 2011, 4:20 am
RemusLupinFan's Avatar
RemusLupinFan  Female.gif RemusLupinFan is offline
I want to believe
 
Joined: 5655 days
Location: The office in the basement
Posts: 5,897
Re: The Works of JRR Tolkien

Quote:
Originally Posted by canismajoris View Post
I think this origin helps to underscore the innate sadness in the Elves, because they are certainly of this world, but they lack the mortal grounding Men possess, and they are chasing, eternally as it turns out, something they will never catch. Not because they feel the lack of it, but because it is in their nature to go on and on.
That's an interesting observation. I wonder if that "something" they chase after is the perfection of Valinor (I'm assuming you've read the Silmarillion, but if not I can go into more detail). It's like they try to make a life for themselves in the mortal world, but it doesn't quite compare to Valinor. And in the end, they realize it and sail off into the west to return there.


__________________

X-Files is the property of Ten Thirteen Productions, 20th Century Fox
WolfCloak30 Pottermore
Reply With Quote
  #325  
Old October 15th, 2011, 6:51 am
canismajoris  Male.gif canismajoris is offline
The Forums Red Hypergiant Star
 
Joined: 5023 days
Location: əɹəɥ
Age: 36
Posts: 2,766
Re: The Works of JRR Tolkien

Quote:
Originally Posted by RemusLupinFan View Post
That's an interesting observation. I wonder if that "something" they chase after is the perfection of Valinor (I'm assuming you've read the Silmarillion, but if not I can go into more detail). It's like they try to make a life for themselves in the mortal world, but it doesn't quite compare to Valinor. And in the end, they realize it and sail off into the west to return there.
That may well be the direction of it. From what I remember from reading several of them, the faeries in these old stories were often somewhere enigmatically between beneficent and malevolent, neither overtly evil nor especially friendly. But they always tended to envy mortals in some way, or covet one of them in particular, or something they possessed, and kidnapping and the like was common. In terms of Elves, at least in The Hobbit, that seems somewhat to fit.

It's hard to say with any certainty to what extent Tolkien might have borrowed substantially and what he instead adapted or invented, but what becomes clear is that in his works there is a pervasive theme of the old world coming into conflict with the new. For the Elves this is not simply an academic matter of history, but something they have witnessed firsthand. So, maybe it's simply that they've seen their place in the world slipping away for ages (literally) and have done everything in their power to preserve it without success.

Edit: I wanted to mention another interesting borrowing in LotR:

I was reading (in translation) an Anglo-Saxon poem called The Wanderer the other day I noticed something delightful: In it are several explicitly ubi sunt lines which kept nagging at my memory, and eventually I realized they are strikingly similar to some verse in The Lord of the Rings.

From The Wanderer:

He who deeply considers... says these words:
Where has the horse gone? where is the rider? where is the giver of gold?
Where are the seats of the feast? where are the joys of the hall?
O the bright cup! O the brave warrior!
O the glory of princes! How time has passed away,
Slipped into nightfall as if it had never been!

And from The Lord of the Rings (in The Two Towers, chapter 6 I think):

Where now are the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing?
Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing?
Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing?
Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing?
They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow;
The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow.

It turns out Aragorn (one who deeply considers?) sings this verse as he and his companions are looking out over the royal burial mounds of the Rohirrim. Aragorn reveals that the lines are an old song in reference to Rohan’s first king Eorl the Young, and were composed to lament the loss of such a great king and his era. The imagery there is striking--they’re counting burial mounds, and remarking on the simbelmyne flower, which blooms year round but only on the tombs of kings. Then the characters go immediately from ruminating on Eorl the Young to the hall of Theoden, who is described as old, bent, weak, and defeated. It is not the most encouraging scene...

I also read a while back that the Rohirrim in LotR are not an idle modification of Anglo-Saxon culture by Tolkien, but represent a more robust rider culture that he supposed might have more successfully repulsed invasions. I ran this by my professor and he commented:

Quote:
The Rohirrim would never lose a battle to William! It fascinates me that 1066 happens because the Anglo-Saxons had JUST fought off an earlier invasion force of Danes half way across the country. When Theoden (Anglo-Saxon for "chief of a tribe or people") is killed, it is not a defeat. It is a victory, as he dies stoically meeting each challenge, avoiding despair, and urging his people to good deeds in battle. The death of the main ring-wraith is in fact achieved because of Anglo-Saxon ideals--that a lord's death must be avenged, and in the end it is Rohan's presence (along with, er, a host of dead that Strider brings) that snaps victory from the jaws of defeat.



Last edited by canismajoris; October 15th, 2011 at 7:02 am.
Reply With Quote
  #326  
Old October 25th, 2011, 6:48 pm
Chrysalis's Avatar
Chrysalis  Undisclosed.gif Chrysalis is offline
Hogwarts Graduate
 
Joined: 5925 days
Location: in my leisure suite
Posts: 2,899
Re: The Works of JRR Tolkien

I read LOTR after the first film came out (but before the other two), having been fascinated by Tolkien for quite a while I think 14-15 was a good age to start. I had tried the Hobbit several times when I was a child but I never got past the first few pages because I never could visualise what Hobbits really were! I thought they were some sort of aardvark. Tolkiens super vague description didn't exactly aid matters either... (And of course when I saw the film poster for LOTR it all clicked suddenly )

But yeah, after reading the books and then the rest of Tolkiens stuff quickly after that, the film trilogy somehow sometimes misses some essence of LOTR. :-) A lot of the characters are really quite different (Frodo not quite so sad and with a sense of humour!) and the atmosphere is a bit different, of course much slower, much more atmospheric in my opinion.

Of the films I think that FOTR was the most succesful in terms of staying true to the book while also spicing it up a bit for film audiences. (Although I really don't like Arwen, the Elf Warrior Princess. )


__________________
being alone, it can be quite romantic/ like Jacques Cousteau underneath the Atlantic
Reply With Quote
  #327  
Old February 2nd, 2012, 5:52 pm
Quickquill  Female.gif Quickquill is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 4694 days
Location: Beersheva, Israel
Posts: 231
Re: The Works of JRR Tolkien

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siriusandme View Post
Don't get me wrong... I love book Aragorn. But when ever I read the book I keep seeing Viggo Mortensen. And book Aragorn seems a bit more "arrogant" than movie Aragorn. I guess the perfect thing would be to have a movie about Aragorn with Viggo Mortensen. Plenty of time to show book Aragorn (for you) and plenty of drool worthy Viggo for me...
It's okay if the movies help you to visualize the characters when reading the books, but lets face it, the movies were only a stripped down version. There's way too much stuff they had to leave out. Everything pertaining to Tom Bombadil, and most of the trip to Bree for instance. all the character's background stories, and a good bit of Middle Earth history had to be left out of the movies. In my opinion, there is enough material in LOTR for a three year television show each episode being 45 minutes long (nominally 1 hour) without adding any new material.


Reply With Quote
  #328  
Old February 3rd, 2012, 7:37 am
canismajoris  Male.gif canismajoris is offline
The Forums Red Hypergiant Star
 
Joined: 5023 days
Location: əɹəɥ
Age: 36
Posts: 2,766
Re: The Works of JRR Tolkien

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickquill View Post
It's okay if the movies help you to visualize the characters when reading the books, but lets face it, the movies were only a stripped down version. There's way too much stuff they had to leave out. Everything pertaining to Tom Bombadil, and most of the trip to Bree for instance. all the character's background stories, and a good bit of Middle Earth history had to be left out of the movies. In my opinion, there is enough material in LOTR for a three year television show each episode being 45 minutes long (nominally 1 hour) without adding any new material.
To this all I can really point out is that Tolkien must have felt on some level that in order for the story to be comprehensible, or at least satisfying for him, a lot of detail had to be included. But he'd probably have been the first to say that the war of the ring is just a tiny snippet of history, and there probably isn't a great shame in focusing a bit more tightly on events that pertain directly to the ring and its destruction.


Reply With Quote
  #329  
Old June 26th, 2012, 9:56 pm
sparrowinwinter  Undisclosed.gif sparrowinwinter is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 2833 days
Location: Amongst the stars
Posts: 88
Re: The Works of JRR Tolkien

I love LOTR. I am currently reading it for the third time. I find Tolkein's work fascinating. He was brilliant. The way he has managed to create a world with its great and its small, leaves me in awe. Also the thoroughness with which all his work regarding Middle-Earth fascinates me. He is one man I would have never gotten bored talking to. I have devoured his books ever since I first saw the movie (which I have watched countless times ). I have tried to read everything I could find about Middle-Earth and its history. I must admit, shamefully, that I have failed. I lacked the patience to follow every single story line, but I will succeed eventually. I will. How he kept up with it all... I winder.


__________________


All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old who is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed be the blade that was broken: The crownless again shall be king.
Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back  Chamber of Secrets > The Writing on the Wall > Fiction > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 2:29 pm.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original content is Copyright MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright its respective owners.