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Severus Snape's Death v2.



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  #61  
Old April 21st, 2008, 9:34 pm
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Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

1. When you read Snape's death scene, how did you react?

It was interesting, I didn't know what was going to happen because there are always so many twists and turns, but then he died. I thought it was a little dues ex machina for Harry to be on the spot, but it was necessary for the storyline. I also thought we were being shown Harry yet again defying reasonable behavior in approaching the man he hated and who he believed had killed Dumbledore. And taking the memories was also suspect, but again, the storyline had to forge on!

2. Could Snape have done more to prevent his own death, at least in this manner or was it inevitable?

Nope. Dumbledore set him up for death with the Elder Wand business right and tight and there was no escape. Even if Snape had admitted the truth to Voldemort - that his killing Dumbledore was a plan between them and thus he was not truly the master of the Elder Wand - Volemort would have killed him for being a traitor, so Snape was doomed any way you slice it.

3. Do you consider Snape's death fitting with the tragic life he had brought upon himself?

Yup. He not only brought tragedy upon himself, but upon others as well (like the Potters and others who suffered while he was a DE) and he caused Harry unnecessary hardship and pain - as well as other students and peers. So being betrayed by Dumbledore and Voldemort, and killed by the latter, was a fitting death for Snape. That it was done via Nagini was also fitting in the symbolism of being bitten by the snake (Slytherin) he had chased after and which had led him to the position he found himself in at the time of his death. It was not a quick death, but he did have to undergo suffering and I think there was a lesson in that with respect to the suffering others had felt at his hands in the past.

4. Was it the sort of death you thought you'd ever see in the Harry Potter novels, bearing in mind it was more brutal and bloody than death at the hands of the Killing Curse?

Sure. It was similar to the killing we'd seen of the old man at the mansion when Nagini bit him and when Charity died and Nagini had her for dinner. It was pure Voldemort.

5. Up until his death what had your thoughts been on whether Snape would live or die and what were your reasons for believing what you did?

I didn't consider it to be honest. It didn't really matter to me one way or the other, but once he had died I thought it was fitting.

6. When Snape saw Harry do you believe he activated the memories to come out of him or do you believe they would have come out anyway regardless of whether anyone showed up?

He activated them - he said to take them. Snape knew what he was doing - he was completing his duty to Dumbledore. That was admirable considering Dumbledore had betrayed him. However, according to JKR, Snape loathed Harry till his death, so imo, Snape wished to be the one to deliver the news to Harry that he would have to die. It was a necessary death for the 'greater good', but on a personal level, I think Snape was satisfied that he'd get to be the bearer of the news. He never could get past his hatred for Harry's father and that was directly transferred to Harry.

7. Do you believe Snape would have planned his death and made preparations to disclose the information Harry needed had Harry not been there at that time? What other ways could he have disclosed remnants of his past without alerting Voldemort?

Apparently Snape did not do that. He did not have that type of foresight. That was Dumbledre's fault because Snape would have no reason to believe that Voldemort would have any reason to kill him - Snape was playing his role perfectly. The back up plan was Dumbledore's portrait telling Harry what he needed to know I imagine - but that had nothing to do with Snape.

8. After you read the next chapter 'The Prince's Tale', did your feelings change at all regarding his death and the character?

Yes. I became utterly disappointed. I actually liked the bad guy character of Snape who worked grudgingly for the good side in the way of an anti-hero. I loved the notion that he hated all things Potter and was a dark, mysterious, but strong individual. Then it turns out he was suffering from unrequited love for another man's wife and his hatred for Harry was based in jealousy for James. . I lost all of my respect and liking for the character after The Prince's tale. I actually disliked him greatly upon completing the series. But with time, I have come to see his character as more pathetic than worthy of hatred. But I don't like his character arc at all as it is so very distinct from the image of him I had formed through Half Blood Prince.

9. Do you believe Snape's death was the right way for Jo to bring closure to his self-induced tortured life?

As opposed to what? There was no where for Snape to go but downhill from the end of DH. With death and Harry's unrealistic recall of the character in the Epilogue, Snape managed to salvage something out of his death.


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  #62  
Old May 4th, 2008, 5:00 pm
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Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

The death itself wasn't a surprise to me, nor the way it happened. I think SS was taken by surprise when he realised the implications of DD's plan. He never seek sacrifice in his actions only follow the plan that DD made to defeat LV. Maybe he felt betrayed by DD and hesitated but even so he choose to follow the plan to his very end. His merit was to be loyal to Lily and to his word to DD. Chosing the difficult way not the easy.

And about the portrait, I think it was a waste don't count with the counsel and the help of such a talented wizard, and maybe this weight in the aim of the school board and the ministry even more that the new information Harry brings about true role SS plays in the rebelion agains LV and his loyalty to Hogwarts.


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  #63  
Old May 9th, 2008, 10:03 am
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Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

1. When you read Snape's death scene, how did you react?

Not completely surprised, but with a smigeon of surprise nonetheless. I had expected him to live

2. Could Snape have done more to prevent his own death, at least in this manner or was it inevitable?

Since I do not believe he understood the workings of The Elder Wand, or that he could have been miscontrude as the winner of the wand, I doubt that even one as clever and knowledgeable as Severus Snape could have predicted the result.

3. Do you consider Snape's death fitting with the tragic life he had brought upon himself?

Fitting? Perhaps. But, I believe he more than paid his debts before this time. Regardless of motive, he still placed himself below others. He regarded Harry as his charge, even if grudgingly. He regarded his word as bond, and he kept it. He twice was integral in bringing down the defeat of the Dark Lord, even if his motives were not altruistic. Certainly his pennance was paid.

4. Was it the sort of death you thought you'd ever see in the Harry Potter novels, bearing in mind it was more brutal and bloody than death at the hands of the Killing Curse?

Well, we had certainly seen other forms of brutality and visciousness in attacks. I am writing of the attack upon Arthur, and Harry's strike with the Sectumsempra curse upon Draco, or even the brutal intents of attacks by the troll, the basilisk, the arachnids, or Fenrir Greyback's throat-ripping lamentanous tales. It was all but assured there would be some kind of truly brutal deaths depicted.

5. Up until his death what had your thoughts been on whether Snape would live or die and what were your reasons for believing what you did?

Clearly, I believed he would live, and should have. As the ever present antagonist of the novels, the revelation that he was in fact the OoTP's greatest asset should have meritted his reprieve.


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  #64  
Old May 26th, 2008, 3:22 pm
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Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

1. When you read Snape's death scene, how did you react?

I went into complete shock. I am not an insane Snape fan, but his death was so horrific and gory. Yet, the "Look.....at.....me" line was absolutely heart-wrenching when you realise why he wanted Harry to look into his eyes. I was shocked, and a little creeped out by the grotesque-ness of it all.

2. Could Snape have done more to prevent his own death, at least in this manner or was it inevitable?

I think he could have done, but ultimately would have decided to die. He probably wouldn't want to be involved in the idylic life that would have came about in the aftermath of Voldemort's downfall.

3. Do you consider Snape's death fitting with the tragic life he had brought upon himself?

Very fitting. Incredibly moving, but it would have been out of character for him to do something heroic like hold Voldemort back so Harry could escape, or screaming "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" as he dives in to shield Harry from Voldemort's killing curse. It just seems very fitting for the tragedy of Snape's life.

4. Was it the sort of death you thought you'd ever see in the Harry Potter novels, bearing in mind it was more brutal and bloody than death at the hands of the Killing Curse?

Before Deathly Hallows, no. However, once I read about Moody's eye in Umbridges door - I knew things were about to get twisted. As for Nagini springing from a corpse, Wormtail strangling himself and Dobby being stabbed to death - I knew it could only get worse.

5. Up until his death what had your thoughts been on whether Snape would live or die and what were your reasons for believing what you did?

I thought he would die, but I was not sure on his true alleigance.

6. When Snape saw Harry do you believe he activated the memories to come out of him or do you believe they would have come out anyway regardless of whether anyone showed up?

I don't think they would have just spilled out from him when he died. They were definately activated by him seeing Harry.

7. Do you believe Snape would have planned his death and made preparations to disclose the information Harry needed had Harry not been there at that time? What other ways could he have disclosed remnants of his past without alerting Voldemort?

I don't think he expected it yet. Dumbledore told him to warn Harry when Nagini started living in the cage. I think he would have prepared the memories then. However, I can't imagine him telling Harry any other way than Memories. He wouldn't want to have to confess it to his face.


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  #65  
Old June 4th, 2008, 5:32 pm
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Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

1. Reading the scene where Snape died made me grimace and then laugh. I mean it was well written and graphic and I remember hanging on every word. I thought the scene was amazing.

2. Snape's death was inevitable. Shock and awe would have prevented him from doing much against the snake. Also even if he had anti-venom or blood replenishing potion I doubt that he would have been able to heal himself back without much help.

3. Snape's entire life was tragic and I cannot think of much else that he had to live for except the downfall of Lord Voldemort. Snape was a cruel and sadistic fellow and while not exactly evil, his death had to be tragic for all the pain and suffering he caused.

4. The death did not surprise me. Each novel in the series became more graphic after all. Also its war thats going on. It is bloody and messy and nasty.

5. Harry is what triggered the memories. Snape knew he was going to die and he had one last chance to share his feelings with Harry and so he did.


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  #66  
Old June 5th, 2008, 3:56 pm
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Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

after reading the prince's tale, i felt sorry for snape...after loathing him for mistreating harry eversince i've started reading the books, understanding the chapter made me love his character... i felt sorry for his death and his actions towards harry too... it's just his love for harry's mother that made him react that way, and that even though he loathed harry's father, he did protected harry somehow... and he became one of the greatest heroes of the harry potter series...


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  #67  
Old June 9th, 2008, 2:15 pm
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Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

I thought that snapes death was satisfactory until i read snapes thoughts and ended up feeling really sorry for him, and i regreted ever thinking that snape was a bad person and i wanted to intervene and wish that snape did not die.
In the end i honoured snapes bravery and willingness to keep his promises to dumbledore and LV without being detected by LV which i found impressive.


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  #68  
Old June 9th, 2008, 8:44 pm
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Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

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Originally Posted by TheBurrowers View Post
I thought that snapes death was satisfactory until i read snapes thoughts and ended up feeling really sorry for him, and i regreted ever thinking that snape was a bad person and i wanted to intervene and wish that snape did not die.
In the end i honoured snapes bravery and willingness to keep his promises to dumbledore and LV without being detected by LV which i found impressive.
Make no mistake, though. Severus Snape may have been working for Dumbledore, but his motives were not altrusitic or benevolent. His motive was, at first, protective of some he loved, and then vengeful for the death of said person. Whereas Dumbledore was really working for the greater good, Snape was working for his own personal anger.

His was a case of "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

I really think that Severus Snape would have exacted his vengence without Dumbledore if he could have, but he knew that was not possible.


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  #69  
Old June 9th, 2008, 9:01 pm
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Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

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Originally Posted by rigdoctorbri View Post
Make no mistake, though. Severus Snape may have been working for Dumbledore, but his motives were not altrusitic or benevolent. His motive was, at first, protective of some he loved, and then vengeful for the death of said person. Whereas Dumbledore was really working for the greater good, Snape was working for his own personal anger.
Not at all.

If Severus Snape had cared for revenge above all else, he would not have objected to Dumbledore's plans for Harry. There it was, a plan to defeat Voldemort, and Snape was angry about it. If he had always been working for revenge, he would not have complained of being "used" by Albus.

The only reason we are given by the text for Snape's reason to work for Albus after Lily was dead, was to give meaning to her sacrifice be keeping her son alive. Not the destruction of her murderer. It may seem a reasonable additional motive, but it is never mentioned.

Though this might be for the character analysis thread, if you would care to take the discussion there.

It is, however, why I personally agree with the posters who say Snape died a hero. He not only died for the good side, he gave up something he personally cared a great deal for in the process, by giving the memory he feared would cause Harry to go to his death, despite his years-long project of keeping him alive.


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  #70  
Old June 9th, 2008, 9:53 pm
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Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

1. When you read Snape's death scene, how did you react?

I always thought Snape wouldn't survive the series, but I wanted him to have a more heroic death, to die accomplishing something. To have him die so needlessly (it did nothing for Dumbledore or Voldemort) seemed a betrayal of the character. Throughout the scene with Voldemort he kept asking V to let him go get Harry. I think he was hoping that if Voldemort did let him go, he'd be able to hide or protect Harry. Since Dumbledore was dead, Snape knew he was the strongest protector Harry had left--as Harry realized before he named Albus Severus.

JKR said several times in interviews that she didn't like the fact that Snape had so many fans. I wonder if this ignoble death was her way of trying to shut that down.

2. Could Snape have done more to prevent his own death, at least in this manner or was it inevitable?

Voldemort was determined to kill him and there really was no way to get away. This was easily the most gruesome death in the series.

3. Do you consider Snape's death fitting with the tragic life he had brought upon himself?

Snape's death didn't really have anything to do with what he'd done aside from killing Dumbledore, which was at Dumbledore's request. Voldemort expresses a prim sort of regret at the necessity of killing Snape in order to own the Elder Wand. Since Dumbledore tried to "leave" Snape the wand, Voldemort thought he had to kill Severus in order to win. And that, of course, did Voldemort no good, because killing Snape did not make him the Deathstick's owner. Voldemort really got badly behind in his newsgroup reading. Ultimately, Snape was a casualty in the conflict between Voldemort and Dumbledore--an easily predictable outcome. He joined Voldemort because Dumbledore asked him to, so in a sense he died as a soldier of Dumbledore's.

4. Was it the sort of death you thought you'd ever see in the Harry Potter novels, bearing in mind it was more brutal and bloody than death at the hands of the Killing Curse?

I'd never really thought about it. AK is so "clean" in the sense that it's instant and there's no blood. In order to be believable, some of the deaths had to be more horrific than that.


5. Up until his death what had your thoughts been on whether Snape would live or die and what were your reasons for believing what you did?

I thought he'd die, but I was hoping for it to be in a more meaningful way.

6. When Snape saw Harry do you believe he activated the memories to come out of him or do you believe they would have come out anyway regardless of whether anyone showed up?

I think he activated them. I don't think they'd've been set on "automatic" because there were people who shouldn't see them.


7. Do you believe Snape would have planned his death and made preparations to disclose the information Harry needed had Harry not been there at that time? What other ways could he have disclosed remnants of his past without alerting Voldemort?

As to your first question, we'll never know. He could have left a Pensieve for Harry.


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  #71  
Old June 9th, 2008, 10:59 pm
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Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

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Originally Posted by zgirnius View Post
Not at all.

If Severus Snape had cared for revenge above all else, he would not have objected to Dumbledore's plans for Harry. There it was, a plan to defeat Voldemort, and Snape was angry about it. If he had always been working for revenge, he would not have complained of being "used" by Albus.

The only reason we are given by the text for Snape's reason to work for Albus after Lily was dead, was to give meaning to her sacrifice be keeping her son alive. Not the destruction of her murderer. It may seem a reasonable additional motive, but it is never mentioned.

Though this might be for the character analysis thread, if you would care to take the discussion there.

It is, however, why I personally agree with the posters who say Snape died a hero. He not only died for the good side, he gave up something he personally cared a great deal for in the process, by giving the memory he feared would cause Harry to go to his death, despite his years-long project of keeping him alive.
No, I think I will continue to discuss this here, because it goes ultimately towards whether or not Snape's death was appropriate to the story.

His motives were to protect Lily's son, and exact a revenge upon Voldemort. Not to protect Harry. He despised Harry for of whom he was reminded, James. Yes, he was surprised when he found out that Harry must die to prevail, but when questioned about if he had grown to care for Harry he replied "For him? EXPECTO PATRONUM", showing his patronus, and thus showing that he was not doing any of this for Harry, but for Lily. So, again, his motivation was revenge for her death, and his love of Lily, not for the greater good.

At the time of Lily's death, Snape felt he had no more motivation to live other than to exact revenge against her killer. So, with nothing left to lose, Snape had nothing to fear. Those who echo that he did this "at great personal risk", I say he was not risking anything. His miserable life ended when Lily's ended. All that remained was a shell of a man.

At the point of Harry receiving the memory from Snape, Snape knew that his only chance for exacting that revenge lay in Harry discovering the truth of his existence; that Harry must sacrifice himself to destroy Voldemort. Otherwise, Snape failed at fulfilling Lily's vengence.

When we add this in to the factors of his death, and whether or not it was appropriate for him to live or die, IMO death was appropriate. A hero's death to be sure, but an appropriate death. Snape's purpose in the story was done. His future had nowhere else to go. He craved no accolades. He desired no applause or heralds. He posthumously received The Order Of Merlin: First Class.


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  #72  
Old June 10th, 2008, 9:52 pm
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Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

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No, I think I will continue to discuss this here, because it goes ultimately towards whether or not Snape's death was appropriate to the story.

His motives were to protect Lily's son, and exact a revenge upon Voldemort. Not to protect Harry. He despised Harry for of whom he was reminded, James. Yes, he was surprised when he found out that Harry must die to prevail, but when questioned about if he had grown to care for Harry he replied "For him? EXPECTO PATRONUM", showing his patronus, and thus showing that he was not doing any of this for Harry, but for Lily. So, again, his motivation was revenge for her death, and his love of Lily, not for the greater good.

At the time of Lily's death, Snape felt he had no more motivation to live other than to exact revenge against her killer. So, with nothing left to lose, Snape had nothing to fear. Those who echo that he did this "at great personal risk", I say he was not risking anything. His miserable life ended when Lily's ended. All that remained was a shell of a man.

At the point of Harry receiving the memory from Snape, Snape knew that his only chance for exacting that revenge lay in Harry discovering the truth of his existence; that Harry must sacrifice himself to destroy Voldemort. Otherwise, Snape failed at fulfilling Lily's vengence.

When we add this in to the factors of his death, and whether or not it was appropriate for him to live or die, IMO death was appropriate. A hero's death to be sure, but an appropriate death. Snape's purpose in the story was done. His future had nowhere else to go. He craved no accolades. He desired no applause or heralds. He posthumously received The Order Of Merlin: First Class.
I agree, except that imo, Snape did not die a hero in any sense of the word. I also do not recall him receiving a Merlin psthumously in canon. Nonetheless, I do feel that his death was appropriate in a literary sense; not so much because he had nothing to live for (he could have found something, imo), but because of literary karma. Imo, Snape never found remorse for some of his sins and additionally cause a lot of damage through his behavior as an individual which was never undone. Imo, Snape remained a literary dark figure for these reasons and death was his literary destiny. Imo, that is also why he was given an unpleasant death during which he was made to suffer - and indeed included suffering in the moments prior to his death as well for several reasons.


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Old June 11th, 2008, 2:08 am
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Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

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Originally Posted by TheBurrowers View Post
I thought that snapes death was satisfactory until i read snapes thoughts and ended up feeling really sorry for him, and i regreted ever thinking that snape was a bad person and i wanted to intervene and wish that snape did not die.
In the end i honoured snapes bravery and willingness to keep his promises to dumbledore and LV without being detected by LV which i found impressive.
That's how I was as well. Before I hated Snape so much, but now he is one of my favorite charectors. I really wish Snape hadn't died.

I do too, I do too.


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Old June 21st, 2008, 2:47 am
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Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

1. When you read Snape's death scene, how did you react?

I was slightly shocked, largely because of how quickly it happened. Voldemort was simply having a conversation with Snape and then, in a matter of sentences, Snape was dead. It was abrupt and caught me off guard. However, I thought it was fitting. I particularly appreciated how Voldemort did not murder Snape with Avada Kedavra. He endowed Snape with a higher honor (though, admittedly, he may not have wanted to trust his wand) than all those others he had carelessly killed prior with the curse.

2. Could Snape have done more to prevent his own death, at least in this manner or was it inevitable?

In this scene, Snape could have done nothing more to protect his life, nor did he, I think, want to. He knew he was going to die - he only tried to delay it enough to give the memories to Harry. Certainly, Snape could have begun to duel with Voldemort, but that would, ultimately, leave him immediately dead via the Avada Kedavra. He probably preferred dying from Nagini, for it provided time (unlike what the Avada Kedavra would do) for Harry to get the memory (even if he did not know Harry was there, it delayed his death some, which would not have been the case if he tried to defend himself).

3. Do you consider Snape's death fitting with the tragic life he had brought upon himself?

Certainly. He had lived what Dumbledore always preached: a fate worse than death. However, a tragic life can and should only end with a tragic death. It was good to see, of course, that Snape's intentions never wavered. Even upon his death he thought only of Lily - nothing for what would become of Harry or the rest.

4. Was it the sort of death you thought you'd ever see in the Harry Potter novels, bearing in mind it was more brutal and bloody than death at the hands of the Killing Curse?

After witnessing Nagini's attack on Arthur Weasley in OotP, I certainly thought we would see Nagini kill someone (though I thought it would be Wormtail). While it was seemingly more gruesome than the Killing Curse, Snape's death by Nagini provided invaluable time.

5. Up until his death what had your thoughts been on whether Snape would live or die and what were your reasons for believing what you did?

I expected him to die during this book. He could not live. Ever since suspicions began to formulate around him, I knew JKR could not let this character live. He had lived a pitiful life, and it was only fitting that JKR should end it, finally being merciful to Severus.

6. When Snape saw Harry do you believe he activated the memories to come out of him or do you believe they would have come out anyway regardless of whether anyone showed up?

I believe the memories would have appeared even if Harry was not present. Severus was fixing all of his final strength on producing those memories out of his own mind - he did not do it just because Harry was there. It was his last hope to display them, if there was the slightest chance Harry would find them before Voldemort.

7. Do you believe Snape would have planned his death and made preparations to disclose the information Harry needed had Harry not been there at that time? What other ways could he have disclosed remnants of his past without alerting Voldemort?

I do not think Snape could have done anything to prevent his death at that time, so he could not have planned his death in any other way. He probably could not have planned it any earlier, either, since he did not know that Voldemort was protecting Nagini.

8. After you read the next chapter 'The Prince's Tale', did your feelings change at all regarding his death and the character?

Slightly, but it did not alter my overall interpretation of his character. I had already suspected almost all that I saw in "The Prince's Tale," and I had formed my opinion of him based on my assumptions. I regard him as fairly brave, but, overall, he did everything for his own satisfaction. He protected Harry only because of Lily, and it was a fairly selfish thing to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigdoctorbri
At the time of Lily's death, Snape felt he had no more motivation to live other than to exact revenge against her killer.
I agree, to an extent. I do not think Snape was as concerned with vengeance as he was trying to settle his own unrest. He did everything to redeem himself to Lily's memory - not to defeat Voldemort. It was his fault, after all, that Lily died. Snape did not care about Voldemort's fate, as long as he could love Lily's memory in peace - without thought that he had completely destroyed her life and legacy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy
I also do not recall him receiving a Merlin psthumously in canon.
I do not think Snape would receive an Order of Merlin, for none other than Harry (and Dumbledore) understood all of his sacrifices and what he did. Harry could not fully tell anyone else since Snape's life and decisions while helping Dumbledore were so complex.


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  #75  
Old June 21st, 2008, 3:21 am
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Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

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Originally Posted by MrSleepyHead View Post
1. When you read Snape's death scene, how did you react?

I was slightly shocked, largely because of how quickly it happened. Voldemort was simply having a conversation with Snape and then, in a matter of sentences, Snape was dead. It was abrupt and caught me off guard. However, I thought it was fitting. I particularly appreciated how Voldemort did not murder Snape with Avada Kedavra. He endowed Snape with a higher honor (though, admittedly, he may not have wanted to trust his wand) than all those others he had carelessly killed prior with the curse.

2. Could Snape have done more to prevent his own death, at least in this manner or was it inevitable?

In this scene, Snape could have done nothing more to protect his life, nor did he, I think, want to. He knew he was going to die - he only tried to delay it enough to give the memories to Harry. Certainly, Snape could have begun to duel with Voldemort, but that would, ultimately, leave him immediately dead via the Avada Kedavra. He probably preferred dying from Nagini, for it provided time (unlike what the Avada Kedavra would do) for Harry to get the memory (even if he did not know Harry was there, it delayed his death some, which would not have been the case if he tried to defend himself).

3. Do you consider Snape's death fitting with the tragic life he had brought upon himself?

Certainly. He had lived what Dumbledore always preached: a fate worse than death. However, a tragic life can and should only end with a tragic death. It was good to see, of course, that Snape's intentions never wavered. Even upon his death he thought only of Lily - nothing for what would become of Harry or the rest.

4. Was it the sort of death you thought you'd ever see in the Harry Potter novels, bearing in mind it was more brutal and bloody than death at the hands of the Killing Curse?

After witnessing Nagini's attack on Arthur Weasley in OotP, I certainly thought we would see Nagini kill someone (though I thought it would be Wormtail). While it was seemingly more gruesome than the Killing Curse, Snape's death by Nagini provided invaluable time.

5. Up until his death what had your thoughts been on whether Snape would live or die and what were your reasons for believing what you did?

I expected him to die during this book. He could not live. Ever since suspicions began to formulate around him, I knew JKR could not let this character live. He had lived a pitiful life, and it was only fitting that JKR should end it, finally being merciful to Severus.

6. When Snape saw Harry do you believe he activated the memories to come out of him or do you believe they would have come out anyway regardless of whether anyone showed up?

I believe the memories would have appeared even if Harry was not present. Severus was fixing all of his final strength on producing those memories out of his own mind - he did not do it just because Harry was there. It was his last hope to display them, if there was the slightest chance Harry would find them before Voldemort.

7. Do you believe Snape would have planned his death and made preparations to disclose the information Harry needed had Harry not been there at that time? What other ways could he have disclosed remnants of his past without alerting Voldemort?

I do not think Snape could have done anything to prevent his death at that time, so he could not have planned his death in any other way. He probably could not have planned it any earlier, either, since he did not know that Voldemort was protecting Nagini.

8. After you read the next chapter 'The Prince's Tale', did your feelings change at all regarding his death and the character?

Slightly, but it did not alter my overall interpretation of his character. I had already suspected almost all that I saw in "The Prince's Tale," and I had formed my opinion of him based on my assumptions. I regard him as fairly brave, but, overall, he did everything for his own satisfaction. He protected Harry only because of Lily, and it was a fairly selfish thing to do.

I agree, to an extent. I do not think Snape was as concerned with vengeance as he was trying to settle his own unrest. He did everything to redeem himself to Lily's memory - not to defeat Voldemort. It was his fault, after all, that Lily died. Snape did not care about Voldemort's fate, as long as he could love Lily's memory in peace - without thought that he had completely destroyed her life and legacy.

I do not think Snape would receive an Order of Merlin, for none other than Harry (and Dumbledore) understood all of his sacrifices and what he did. Harry could not fully tell anyone else since Snape's life and decisions while helping Dumbledore were so complex.
I have to disagree with you, wholeheartedly on the last part regarding The Order Of Merlin: First Class. Harry would have ensured that Snape received all the recognition he felt he deserved. As proof of Snape's sacrifices, Harry would have simply taken the memory out and put it in a pensieve. We can reasonably assume that Shacklebolt remained as MoM for a fair while, and he would have been partial to Harry, whom he would have regarded as very credible. But, this goes forth to speculation, and slightly off topic...


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Old June 21st, 2008, 4:25 am
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Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

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Originally Posted by MrSleepyHead View Post
He did everything to redeem himself to Lily's memory - not to defeat Voldemort. It was his fault, after all, that Lily died. Snape did not care about Voldemort's fate, as long as he could love Lily's memory in peace - without thought that he had completely destroyed her life and legacy.
But he was not without thought to this, it featured prominently in his argument with Dumbledore, shown to Harry in "The Prince's Tale". He objected to the plan, on the grounds that he had always been protecting Harry in order that he would live, as Lily would have wanted.

Either Snape decided that "the greater good" of Voldemort's destruction was inportant enough to present Harry with the facts that would likely lead Harry to seek his own death, in which case he was not in fact always and only about Lily and loving her memory in peace. Or, he believed Lily would have wanted him to choose as he did (in which case, he died furthering her legacy).


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  #77  
Old June 21st, 2008, 4:32 am
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Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

1. When you read Snape's death scene, how did you react?

As soon as Snape started talking urgently I knew he was a goner, although I was shocked that Voldemort would kill a good death eater even though he could have just disarmed him.

2. Could Snape have done more to prevent his own death, at least in this manner or was it inevitable?

Snape was doomed, but I think he should've worked harder to give Harry the memories because he didn't know Harry was there. Perhaps apparating(except there was probably an anti-appartition jinx on the shack).

3. Do you consider Snape's death fitting with the tragic life he had brought upon himself?
Yes, he had to die and being eaten by the snake(Slytherin - ambition, power hungry) that he was consumed by during his life was quite symbolic, also that he became just another of Voldemort's death eaters that died for him without receiving any thanks.

4. Was it the sort of death you thought you'd ever see in the Harry Potter novels, bearing in mind it was more brutal and bloody than death at the hands of the Killing Curse?
Voldemort likes playing with his food in a sense, he enjoys tormenting people, he let Snape see that he was trapped and he was going to die no matter what and he made it a horrible death (which makes me wonder if he suspected Snape, or if Nagini was just hungry)

5. Up until his death what had your thoughts been on whether Snape would live or die and what were your reasons for believing what you did?

Snape had to die, living was too much of a torment for him and his love for Lily. He needed to die, he was also a protector of Harry - another reason for him to die.

6. When Snape saw Harry do you believe he activated the memories to come out of him or do you believe they would have come out anyway regardless of whether anyone showed up?

He had to activate them. He went with Dumbledore's plan and tried to help Lily's son fulfill his duty, although he was probably rejoicing at the likelihood of James' son's death.

7. Do you believe Snape would have planned his death and made preparations to disclose the information Harry needed had Harry not been there at that time? What other ways could he have disclosed remnants of his past without alerting Voldemort?

Snape didn't expect it to happen like that - he thought he was indispensable which I think Voldemort enjoyed letting him know that he wasn't. So Snape didn't have a back up plan. But as Dumbledore once said to Harry that telling Ron and Hermione wouldn't hurt, he probably told someone what Harry had to do before his death as well, as I don't think Dumbledore ever really trusted Snape.

8. After you read the next chapter 'The Prince's Tale', did your feelings change at all regarding his death and the character?

Slightly, I enjoyed the romance being a bit of a romantic myself and liked Snape for it, although I had already guessed the Lily/Snape ship. Although I had liked him alot as the evil, enigmatic guy - but I love knowing the motivation of a character so Snape became alot more fleshed out imo. I also really like memory sequences so, I partly just liked him more for giving Harry memories(sad, but true) and the background of Petunia was really interesting although not much to do with Snape.

9. Do you believe Snape's death was the right way for Jo to bring closure to his self-induced tortured life?
Definitely, Snape had to die, the only reason he was living was to help stop the son of someone he hated from dying - in his mind Harry is probably the symbol of Snape's loss of Lily so Snape had to die.



Last edited by Opaleye_Draco; June 21st, 2008 at 4:36 am.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 5:52 am
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Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

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Originally Posted by MrSleepyHead View Post
I do not think Snape was as concerned with vengeance as he was trying to settle his own unrest. He did everything to redeem himself to Lily's memory - not to defeat Voldemort. It was his fault, after all, that Lily died. Snape did not care about Voldemort's fate, as long as he could love Lily's memory in peace - without thought that he had completely destroyed her life and legacy.
I agree, and that I believe was supported by JKR indicated in her NBC interview with Viera, where she stated that Snape unfairly loathed Harry to his death. I believe that Snape's act of asking Harry to look at him was so he could see Lily's eyes and that also supports this idea. I believe at death it was possible that Snape didn't care about Voldemort's fate or Lily's legacy because in that moment I feel he may have been thinking only of himself and trying to reach a state of self contentment. I have theorized that Snape found himself in a kind of paradox of making peace with himself where he had resigned himself to look in James Potter's face, who he loathed to get a last glimpse of Lily's eyes and within the scope of doing that, he was forcing himself to recognize the Potter's marriage and their love for one another which resulted in their son, who he also loathed. But in connection with that theory, at death, it could have been a way for Snape to make peace with two emotions had been waring within him for years - still loathing the two Potter men and loving the Potter woman, but recognizing everything else and accepting it; that would bring a certain amount of contentment in the form of relief for him, in my opinion.


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Old June 21st, 2008, 1:06 pm
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Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

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Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy View Post
Imo, that is also why he was given an unpleasant death during which he was made to suffer - and indeed included suffering in the moments prior to his death as well for several reasons.
Peter Pettigrew's crime against the Potters was worse than Snape's, IMO, and he is given a pretty unpleasant death as well, although less gruesome. I am uncomfortable with the notion that an author must make a character who has done wrong to suffer a painful death. Especially when said character has tried to make amends for a past wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSleepyHead View Post
1. When you read Snape's death scene, how did you react?

I was slightly shocked, largely because of how quickly it happened. Voldemort was simply having a conversation with Snape and then, in a matter of sentences, Snape was dead. It was abrupt and caught me off guard. However, I thought it was fitting. I particularly appreciated how Voldemort did not murder Snape with Avada Kedavra. He endowed Snape with a higher honor (though, admittedly, he may not have wanted to trust his wand) than all those others he had carelessly killed prior with the curse.
How is killing Snape in a particularly gruesome and painful way a 'higher honour' than casting the Avada Kedavra, which is at least painless? I thought Voldemort killed Snape the same way he killed anybody else -- with utter contempt.

I also think he suspected Snape, over the Elder Wand business. I get a very strong impression from their final conversation that he did so, and that his suspicion was stoked higher by Snape's inability to answer his questions about the Elder Wand. It was painful to see Snape at such a loss, and that is of course because he himself had no clue about the Elder Wand. So Voldemort's suspicions may well have motivated him to kill Snape as horribly as he did.

Quote:
3. Do you consider Snape's death fitting with the tragic life he had brought upon himself?

Certainly. He had lived what Dumbledore always preached: a fate worse than death. However, a tragic life can and should only end with a tragic death. It was good to see, of course, that Snape's intentions never wavered. Even upon his death he thought only of Lily - nothing for what would become of Harry or the rest.
With respect, I disagree. I think he was desperate to get the final piece of information to Harry, and I think he experienced deep relief that he had not failed in his task to Dumbledore. We don't actually know what he was thinking as he died, as JKR doesn't tell us, so I think we are free to interpret his final dying seconds in various ways.

Quote:
I do not think Snape would receive an Order of Merlin, for none other than Harry (and Dumbledore) understood all of his sacrifices and what he did. Harry could not fully tell anyone else since Snape's life and decisions while helping Dumbledore were so complex.
But Harry told Voldemort and the entire school about Snape's love for his mother and Snape's loyalty to Dumbledore! JKR has also said that she thought Harry would ensure that everybody would know about Snape's heroism and make steps to ensure that Snape's portrait was eventually hung at Hogwarts. So, respectfully, I disagree that Harry or others would not have campaigned for Snape to get a posthumous Order of Merlin. JMO.

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I agree, and that I believe was supported by JKR indicated in her NBC interview with Viera, where she stated that Snape unfairly loathed Harry to his death. I believe that Snape's act of asking Harry to look at him was so he could see Lily's eyes and that also supports this idea. I believe at death it was possible that Snape didn't care about Voldemort's fate or Lily's legacy because in that moment I feel he may have been thinking only of himself and trying to reach a state of self contentment. I have theorized that Snape found himself in a kind of paradox of making peace with himself where he had resigned himself to look in James Potter's face, who he loathed to get a last glimpse of Lily's eyes and within the scope of doing that, he was forcing himself to recognize the Potter's marriage and their love for one another which resulted in their son, who he also loathed. But in connection with that theory, at death, it could have been a way for Snape to make peace with two emotions had been waring within him for years - still loathing the two Potter men and loving the Potter woman, but recognizing everything else and accepting it; that would bring a certain amount of contentment in the form of relief for him, in my opinion.
I read Snape's death scene thus: relief that he had been able to release those crucial memories to Harry, even as he lay dying ... and seeking some form of peace by looking into Lily/Harry's eyes.


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Old June 21st, 2008, 1:31 pm
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Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

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Originally Posted by Pearl_Took View Post
Peter Pettigrew's crime against the Potters was worse than Snape's, IMO, and he is given a pretty unpleasant death as well, although less gruesome. I am uncomfortable with the notion that an author must make a character who has done wrong to suffer a painful death. Especially when said character has tried to make amends for a past wrong.
I thought Peter's death was also cruel and suffering. He choked himself with his own hand - imagine him gurgling and suffering knowing he was going to die. On top of it, it was the hand he treasured - his gift from Voldemort. But the gift was enchanted if he ever showed remorse, I think Voldemort knew he would because he knew his old friendships ran deep. So I think his death was equally gruesome as Snape's. I agree that JKR did not base deaths on people's lives (Voldemort's was rather quick and easy). I more feel that it was based on Snape's character - the whole chasing Slytherin thing and how it comes back to bit you deal and then Harry being there to allow him to complete his duty to Dumbledore spoke to his turning sides. But Snape also spent his life directly making other's suffer imo (as did Peter) so I personally feel that he got a lesson there in understanding what suffering on one's own behalf meant (as opposed to suffering over something else.)

Quote:
I read Snape's death scene thus: relief that he had been able to release those crucial memories to Harry, even as he lay dying ... and seeking some form of peace by looking into Lily/Harry's eyes.
I respect your view, but I meant if he was looking at Harry's face to see Lily's eyes, I'm figuring he had to reconcile with that - he loathed Harry because he saw James. So I think he reconciled himself to the fact that his place was to see Lily as James' wife and Harry's mum - and I think that would give him a modicum of relief because prior to that, the notion drove him to anger, bitterness and being upset. He could still loathe the men, but additionally accept the facts as they were upon his death.


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