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#61
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Re: Immigration and immigrants
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Sometimes turning a bit of a blind eye is a good thing. It gives people the opportunity to discuss it. Correct people, remove their prejudices, show them their stereotypes are wrong. Believe me, enforcing rules like this too strictly is a recipe for disaster. It can become impossible to discuss anything, and it will also make people resentful and more aggressive. But that's totally OT. I'm not sure if I have anything to say about immigration that hasn't been said already. My attitude can be summarised as "If you don't want immigration, you shouldn't be allowed to retire in -enter European country with balmy climate of your choice -". Last edited by Starling; October 1st, 2010 at 2:03 pm. |
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#62
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Re: Immigration and immigrants
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I would describe myself as a liberal and I am very much in favour of multiculturalism and a liberal immigration policy. But I also know that there are quite a few working-class Labour supporters who get frustrated with people like me (university-educated, middle-class liberals), because it's easy for us to be relaxed about immigration when it's, by and large, not our employment prospects that are under threat if the market becomes flooded by cheap unskilled labour. I disagree with their views (I think there are many factors affecting employment availability and immigrant labour is one of the smallest factors), but I do understand they have legitimate concerns and it's in many cases not a racist thing (I have come across many black and Asian British working-class people who feel that immigration should be tightened because they think there aren't enough jobs to go round and services like housing, health care and education are being put under strain by too many immigrants arriving at the same time). Then there are those social liberals who are concerned about immigrants from more socially conservative cultures having an impact on e.g. women's rights and gay rights. I would emphasise that I disagree with them, but I recognise that for many of them it's a genuine concern - they are worried about hard-won rights being eroded and are not just clutching at that as an excuse with which to beat foreigners. |
#63
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Re: Immigration and immigrants
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#64
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Re: Immigration and immigrants
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I suspect that even the government privately don't think that a cap on skilled labour is a good idea, but it's pretty much the only thing they can be seen to be doing about immigration without flouting EU law. Last edited by Melaszka; October 1st, 2010 at 3:55 pm. |
#65
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Re: Immigration and immigrants
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#66
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Re: Immigration and immigrants
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But I digress. I think that I am mostly in favour of relatively relaxed migration laws. Partly because Britain needs its competitiveness and, simply by its nature as a Commonwealth and EU trading hub must allow for free flow of money and labour. I also live in London and I love that almost every culture on earth is represented there in some form. But then again, I am a young professional in a field unlikely to have boatloads of new competitors entering. I have never lost my job and struggled to find a new one. I have never had to listen to people tell me that the jobs taken by migrants are things that "I will not do" or am too lazy to do. This argument I have always found odd anyway. Especially when used by people who are supposedly 'Liberals'. How bizarre that Britain's working class, those valiant underdogs suddenly become their slovenly Daily Mail stereotype when it comes to immigration.
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#67
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Re: Immigration and immigrants
Do you believe immigrants have made living easier or more difficult in your country? Why?
In Europe it failed. The last immigration wave I mean. Mass immigration of lower class, culturally and religious different economical immigrants should not be done. It takes generations of people to integrate, (even that's uncertain). Disproportional groups of Moroccans cause trouble with society and the natives are tired of that. They should be willing to adapt when they move here or stay home. Are you/is anyone in your family an immigrant? Can you tell your side of the story? Nope, all natives. Do you want to leave your country (permanently-for a while)? What are your reasons for it? I have lived abroad for a year and I can honestly say no place is better as the next. If you're unhappy you will always find something to pick on. It's basically projection of your own unhappyness. Whether it be immigrants, housing problems or whatever. Is there any particular issue regarding immigration that you'd like to share or discuss? Please feel free. I hope economical immigrants do not only immigrate for money benefit. But do it to be part of society and Europe. The latter is where the problem lies. They want work but they have unrealistic expectations, there are no jobs for millions of immigrants from North Africa who cannot read and write and do not speak the native language. They have unreastic expectations and need to realise that. Wake up people, make something of your life at home!
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#68
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Re: Immigration and immigrants
Yes, it's so easy to make "something of your life at home" when you live in a country where the government is a brutal dictatorship and any attempt to change the status quo is met by imprisonment, torture and death.
(I'll not go into the grossly racist assumption that African immigrants can't "cannot read and write".)
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#69
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Re: Immigration and immigrants
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Oh yeah, the race card. I was waiting for that.... I am generalising you have to see that. But most immigrants that go to Europe are not doctors or lawyers and alot of them have no intention or lack the ability of being part of society. They're not all victims, there are parasites among them and why can't I say that out loud without someone putting the race card out. So cheap. Not every person had good intentions coming here. Some do. But not all. It's understandable they want a better life, but we cannot help them all. We lack the capacity to give them all jobs. We do not have any obligation to them either. Why? Because they're sad? That attitude is naive and old politically correct politics. What makes me angry is when they claim this and that and use their immigrant position to get things done. That's the wrong attitude. Not equal and creates abuse of the system. And there's the discrimination of homosexuals which has never been on a rebound here and now it happens mainly because of them. And look in the prisons here. Same story. Too many do not have the right attitude to move into Europe. They are not ready. We need to take on the Australian attitude: what can these people do for us instead of what can we do for them....We need to be more realpolitik about it, and less idealistic. But Europe is not that far yet. We live in a suffocating pc-society that doens't have the guts to face the facts. And some of the rare people that do are either killed or under constant surveillance (Theo van Gogh the film director and that Danish cartoonist) because of threats coming from that area. And if you do not get my point, walk around in Brussels or The Hague for a day, if that's the future for Europe, well, I will say no more ![]()
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Last edited by IronLady; April 25th, 2011 at 10:36 pm. |
#70
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Re: Immigration and immigrants
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Otherwise, its up to individual government to manage their intake of non-humanitarian migrants. Quote:
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Actually I'm always amused by Europeans who whine about immigrants. I consider it karmic realignment for the days when their forebears imperialist antics.
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A patriot is someone who wants the best for his country, including the best laws and the best ideals. It's something other people should call you -- you shouldn't call yourself that. People who call themselves patriots are usually liars. -- Donald Woods You got what anybody gets . . . You got a lifetime. -- Death of the Endless |
#71
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Re: Immigration and immigrants
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Not easy to agree with but...I understand how uncomfortable it is to try to mention the problem/s without appearing "nationalistic." A person wants to think of his/her country's people first. The non-pc thing to say is that immigrants can be a problem when they refuse to conform to the country and the societal "mores" to go with it when they willingly entered into said country, and even more so when they expect that a country's people to "carry them" rather than the immigrant to make a positive contribution to their "adoptive" country. Is that what you're trying not to say? ![]()
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#72
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Re: Immigration and immigrants
And closed...
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