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HP Movie "Chapter-a-Day" DVD Discussion V2



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  #1021  
Old January 21st, 2010, 10:29 am
thefirestorm  Undisclosed.gif thefirestorm is offline
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Re: HP Movie "Chapter-a-Day" DVD Discussion V2

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Then we get onto the actual vow. IMO they shouldn't have shown it on screen, because this way the climax is spoiled as soon as Snape appears on the tower. They should have had Snape respond to Bella's taunt by saying he's not a coward, then faded out or panned to Wormtail spying on them, just something so that we don't see the actual magic being performed.
I really don't think this messed up the climax. Quite a few people I know said they thought Snape would sacrifice his life for Dumbledore in the end.
I really like the mark or "scar" left on both their hands after the vow.


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  #1022  
Old January 21st, 2010, 10:37 am
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Re: HP Movie "Chapter-a-Day" DVD Discussion V2

I thought the scene went pretty well. There are two parts I really liked in this scene. The first part with Bellatrix and Narcissa heading for Spinner's End, through the street. Very nice cinematography here, quite beautiful.

My other favorite part was when the Unbreakable Vow was taking place and Bellatrix rests her head on Narcissa's shoulder and looks at Snape. Throughout this scene, Helena Bonham Carter did a wonderful job, and she was just superb during the Unbreakable Vow.

Yoshi, I will agree with you when it comes to Narcissa. I didn't like her portrayal when I first saw the movie, and I didn't like her on my second, third, fourth re-watches. Just something about her, and it might be her appearance. I don't know what they did with her hair, but I agree that if they just kept it completely blonde or white-blonde, it would have been instantly noticeable that she was Draco's mother. Even my own mother asked me "Is that Draco's mother?" Also her voice and presence is a little too calm. Narcissa is like her sister... she is not as psychotic as Bellatrix, but still has that rage in her.

Wormtail... well, it was great seeing him in the movie. Gives continuity to the series, and with what happens to him in Deathly Hallows, they definitely needed him in this movie, so that, maybe, perhaps, all of the moviegoers will remember him when they watch Deathly Hallows and will be affected by his death.


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  #1023  
Old January 21st, 2010, 10:39 am
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Re: HP Movie "Chapter-a-Day" DVD Discussion V2

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Originally Posted by thefirestorm View Post
I really don't think this messed up the climax. Quite a few people I know said they thought Snape would sacrifice his life for Dumbledore in the end.
That doesn't make any sense though does it? It's not just Snape and Draco on the tower. OK Snape dies, one of the other Death Eaters would kill Dumbledore.


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Wormtail... well, it was great seeing him in the movie. Gives continuity to the series, and with what happens to him in Deathly Hallows, they definitely needed him in this movie, so that, maybe, perhaps, all of the moviegoers will remember him when they watch Deathly Hallows and will be affected by his death.
He appears for literally 5 seconds. The vast majority will have forgotten about him by the halfway point of this movie, they certainly won't remember his appearance 2 years later when watching Deathly Hallows. It was a fun cameo, like when he appeared in the photo in OOTP, nothing more IMO. They can't rely on that when it comes to DH.



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  #1024  
Old January 21st, 2010, 11:11 am
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Re: HP Movie "Chapter-a-Day" DVD Discussion V2

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Originally Posted by yoshi2542 View Post
He appears for literally 5 seconds. The vast majority will have forgotten about him by the halfway point of this movie, they certainly won't remember his appearance 2 years later when watching Deathly Hallows. It was a fun cameo, like when he appeared in the photo in OOTP, nothing more IMO. They can't rely on that when it comes to DH.
Hmmm, we'll agree to disagree .

You'd be surprised what people can remember. And those 5 seconds were very important... especially for Timothy Spall .


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  #1025  
Old January 21st, 2010, 12:38 pm
Apheka  Female.gif Apheka is offline
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Re: HP Movie "Chapter-a-Day" DVD Discussion V2

I was surprised that Spinner's End was in such an obviously Muggle area and I tried to picture where he would have met Lily and Petunia but then I realized that it wasn't said in the film that this was Snape's old family home.
Narcissa's hair bothered me as well. Why go half blonde when it's always full blonde in contrast to Bellatrix's dark hair. I don't agree that she has a rage inside her although she has the same arrogance as Bellatrix, she has more fear that she will lose her only son to Voldemorte. She has no assurance that her husband will ever leave Azkaban, she doesn't know whether Voldemorte will ultimately release him so Draco is all she has.


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  #1026  
Old January 21st, 2010, 12:40 pm
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Re: HP Movie "Chapter-a-Day" DVD Discussion V2

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So Voldemort is not that important in this movie huh?
Well, of course he is. I forgot to mention one of the main issues, which is about Voldemort and how his followers are gaining in strength. This is a storyline which is not so well worked out in the plot, but more so in the cinematography as I see it.

Voldemort's past is worked into the storyline about Harry - Dumbledore and Harry's relation to Slughorn.


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  #1027  
Old January 21st, 2010, 8:44 pm
CrazyMuggle  Undisclosed.gif CrazyMuggle is offline
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Re: HP Movie "Chapter-a-Day" DVD Discussion V2

One of the better chapters in the film IMO. Love the cinematography of the opening shot, Wormtail's cameo and even the simple way Snape flips down the newspaper. Yes Narcissa's hair is a little off but I honestly don't find it THAT distracting; it gives her a sweet Cruella de Vill vibe. The vow itself was well done and I like the marks it leaves on Snape's and Cissy's hands (a nice touch). I also really liked how Snape's line "I've even fooled one of the greatest wizards of all time" is both a jab at Voldemort and praise of Dumbledore (it can be taken different ways). A fine scene with good performances.


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  #1028  
Old January 21st, 2010, 8:55 pm
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Re: HP Movie "Chapter-a-Day" DVD Discussion V2

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Originally Posted by CrazyMuggle View Post
One of the better chapters in the film IMO. Love the cinematography of the opening shot, Wormtail's cameo and even the simple way Snape flips down the newspaper. Yes Narcissa's hair is a little off but I honestly don't find it THAT distracting; it gives her a sweet Cruella de Vill vibe. The vow itself was well done and I like the marks it leaves on Snape's and Cissy's hands (a nice touch). I also really liked how Snape's line "I've even fooled one of the greatest wizards of all time" is both a jab at Voldemort and praise of Dumbledore (it can be taken different ways). A fine scene with good performances.
My thoughts exactly


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  #1029  
Old January 21st, 2010, 8:59 pm
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Re: HP Movie "Chapter-a-Day" DVD Discussion V2

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Originally Posted by jan74 View Post
Well, of course he is. I forgot to mention one of the main issues, which is about Voldemort and how his followers are gaining in strength. This is a storyline which is not so well worked out in the plot, but more so in the cinematography as I see it.

Voldemort's past is worked into the storyline about Harry - Dumbledore and Harry's relation to Slughorn.
There is nothing about Voldemort's past/connection with Harry until Dumbledore's speech at the Great Hall. Which, in my opinion, should have been a major storyline.

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Originally Posted by Fury View Post
Hmmm, we'll agree to disagree .

You'd be surprised what people can remember. And those 5 seconds were very important... especially for Timothy Spall .
I'd be really surprised if a non-reader would remember Wormtail from that.

Besides, at that moment the viewers are trying to tell who the hell are these two women.


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  #1030  
Old January 21st, 2010, 9:36 pm
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Re: HP Movie "Chapter-a-Day" DVD Discussion V2

Well everyday I get more surprised by what people can't remember, oh well.
Anyway, this chapter is very odd, like all the beginning of HBP my guess is that they shot two versions of this scene, one with an upset Narcissa, and the one we got.
Helen McCrory acting too is very odd, one time she's still, the other is in tears, and even Helena B. Carter looks a bit perplexed in all of this.
I expected more interaction between Snape, Bella and Narcissa, instead they seem to barely know each other.
The point of all this seems to be just 'Showing the Vow to please the fans, we must stuck to the book!'.
I'd like to ask Yates why bothering to keep this scenes in, if they have to turn out like this one?


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  #1031  
Old January 22nd, 2010, 8:22 pm
mrfutterman  Undisclosed.gif mrfutterman is offline
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Re: HP Movie "Chapter-a-Day" DVD Discussion V2

A question: What is Snape's motivation in this scene?

We have to sort-of guess that he is so stung by Bellatrix's taunts that, despite his faint contempt for the woman making the taunts, he let's her bounce him into make An!Unbreakable!Vow! which even at this pre-explanation stage is obviously a big deal.

I say "sort-of guess" because Rickman's performance is so enigmatic that we have to fill in the blanks ourselves.

Hell's teeth! This is why exposition can be cut to a minimum in films: because visual clues, such as an actor's body language and facial expression, can do the work of many words. So why didn't Yates and Rickman chuck us a bone? Even if it was a misleading one.


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  #1032  
Old January 22nd, 2010, 10:57 pm
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Re: HP Movie "Chapter-a-Day" DVD Discussion V2

The same as in the book I guess: Pretend he is a Death Eater and convince doubters like Bellatrix into believing it. That's how I saw it. Obviously, he didn't want to do it, but under the circumstances he didn't have much of a choice. Rickman's facial expressions clearly revealed (at least to me) that he made a mistake he was kind of fooled into.


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  #1033  
Old January 23rd, 2010, 1:49 am
mrfutterman  Undisclosed.gif mrfutterman is offline
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Re: HP Movie "Chapter-a-Day" DVD Discussion V2

You misunderstand me. Let me be clearer.

In the book Snape resists the sisters' attempts to enlist his help for a long time. The Dark Lord's will is law, and blah, blah, blah. When he does succumb, it appears to be out of pity for Narcissa who has flung herself on her knees before him and pleaded desperately for his help. She has flattered him and cajoled him, referring to his old friendship with Lucius and you are Draco's favourite teacher, Severus. Remember how some suspected that there had been something between Narcissa and Snape? Misdirection by the author, maybe but it is not too shallow to think that Snape's pride was piqued when an attractive upper class trophy blonde abased herself before him.

Pride and compassion: motivation.

The film scene is so under-powered that we are left with a Snape who puts himself on the line because of Bellatrix's taunts. I mean - why would he?


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  #1034  
Old January 23rd, 2010, 9:48 am
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Re: HP Movie "Chapter-a-Day" DVD Discussion V2

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Originally Posted by mrfutterman View Post
You misunderstand me. Let me be clearer.

In the book Snape resists the sisters' attempts to enlist his help for a long time. The Dark Lord's will is law, and blah, blah, blah. When he does succumb, it appears to be out of pity for Narcissa who has flung herself on her knees before him and pleaded desperately for his help. She has flattered him and cajoled him, referring to his old friendship with Lucius and you are Draco's favourite teacher, Severus. Remember how some suspected that there had been something between Narcissa and Snape? Misdirection by the author, maybe but it is not too shallow to think that Snape's pride was piqued when an attractive upper class trophy blonde abased herself before him.

Pride and compassion: motivation.

The film scene is so under-powered that we are left with a Snape who puts himself on the line because of Bellatrix's taunts. I mean - why would he?
They should have had Snape snap at Bella when she calls him a coward. Then we could have had the same thing later with Harry. I think that would have given us enough to buy Snape helping them.


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  #1035  
Old January 23rd, 2010, 9:53 am
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Re: HP Movie "Chapter-a-Day" DVD Discussion V2

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Remember how some suspected that there had been something between Narcissa and Snape? Misdirection by the author, maybe but it is not too shallow to think that Snape's pride was piqued when an attractive upper class trophy blonde abased herself before him.
It's true, instead in the movie everything is so toned down, the script of the scene is bad in the first place: Snape would laugh at Bella's 'coward', he would not be scared by it.
I can imagine Steve Kloves rolling his eyes thinking: Oh, I have to keep this scene in the movie, give me a sec, I'll write something down.


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  #1036  
Old January 23rd, 2010, 10:36 am
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Re: HP Movie "Chapter-a-Day" DVD Discussion V2

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Originally Posted by mrfutterman View Post
You misunderstand me. Let me be clearer.

In the book Snape resists the sisters' attempts to enlist his help for a long time. The Dark Lord's will is law, and blah, blah, blah. When he does succumb, it appears to be out of pity for Narcissa who has flung herself on her knees before him and pleaded desperately for his help. She has flattered him and cajoled him, referring to his old friendship with Lucius and you are Draco's favourite teacher, Severus. Remember how some suspected that there had been something between Narcissa and Snape? Misdirection by the author, maybe but it is not too shallow to think that Snape's pride was piqued when an attractive upper class trophy blonde abased herself before him.

Pride and compassion: motivation.

The film scene is so under-powered that we are left with a Snape who puts himself on the line because of Bellatrix's taunts. I mean - why would he?
I see. Well, the film underplayed certain elements or did it in subtle way, as some may put it. This change was not a big deal to me, though I understand the criticism for lack of established motivation in the scene. However, as you said we must fill in the blanks ourselves, which is both positive and negative. At least we are not hit in the face with exposition. I actually think it worked with Bellatrix questioning him and making him do the Vow. Within the limited screentime of the scene, the film makers emphasized the most on the question which side Snape is on, IMO. That way the audience is focused upon that instead of his weakness for Narcissa.


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  #1037  
Old January 24th, 2010, 7:18 pm
mrfutterman  Undisclosed.gif mrfutterman is offline
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Re: HP Movie "Chapter-a-Day" DVD Discussion V2

Here's what I would have done, using the same elements and pretty much the same time investment.

A proper match cut. I mean... who are these people, whose faces we are too far away to see, chattering away? Cut from the newspaper showing Narcissa's face, haughty, arrogant, which crumbles and so to Narcissa in the rain, desperate, distressed. If there is time, give Bellatrix one line asking why Snape lives in "this muggle dump". That can be cut if the HBP plot line is being downgraded.

Keep the camera near enough to show who is saying what, and to show that the sisters differ over this approach to... whom?

Keep the shot of the muggle town. Gawd, it looks like Burnley!

Cut to Snape opening the door. Same body language as Pettigrew (who doesn't need a 3 second name check) to show that the visitors are unexpected, and by no means welcome.

Interior. Make the sisters more richly dressed. Add some classy looking jewellery for Narcissa and keep her hair long and blonde, not because "it's in the book!" but to use the visual language of film to demonstrate that she is an upper class trophy blonde, reduced to begging for help from this jumped up bumpkin.

Narcissa should be desperate. Weep. Beg. She should refer - v. briefly - to Snape's friendship with Lucius and his mentor role at Hogwarts vis-a-vis her boy.

More motivation - Snape should be stung by Bellatrix's words. The line showing mild contempt "Put it down, Bellatrix...." should be cut.

The sisters should play "good cop; bad cop" while Snape visibly reacts to both.

Let's have some real drama.


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  #1038  
Old January 25th, 2010, 12:26 am
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Re: HP Movie "Chapter-a-Day" DVD Discussion V2

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Let's have some real drama.
Hear, hear! This scene lacks completely of emotion, every character acts out of character and the question is solved with just 'coward'.


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  #1039  
Old January 25th, 2010, 6:54 am
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Re: HP Movie "Chapter-a-Day" DVD Discussion V2

For me the real attraction of this scene is the mood and the quiet, but very effective performances of Rickman and the actor playing Narcissa.

If the film had followed the lines of a classic drama or mystery story, there would have been more focus on Snape's motivation, confrontations/discussions and the emotions would be acted out more intensely. I understand it when people miss these things and the absence of the intense focus on Snape's allegiance that we get in the book.

The advantages of shaping the story like Yates do are the possibilities of working more with the atmosphere, with small nuances in the tone of voice and expressions of the characters, with the more unspoken bond between the characters and importantly, for me, it gives more room for the audience to invest more of their own imagination in the film.

There is more than enough emotional drama for me in performing the unbreakable vow in the first place and commiting to it. As the scene is played out, Snape's motivation to do it could be a number of things, one of which is Bellatrix taunting him, another compassion/pity for Malfoy and/or Narcissa. But this wasn't the main issue. The bond between Narcissa and Snape when performing the vow, the small pause before Snape's last "I will", was more than enough for me.

And as for Narcissa's character, I did notice the difference between the way she is portrayed in the book, but I still felt her voice and her expression spoke volumes about the fear and despair she feels. She didn't need to get down on her knees and beg for mercy to make you understand the emotion she was going through.


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  #1040  
Old January 25th, 2010, 10:01 am
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Re: HP Movie "Chapter-a-Day" DVD Discussion V2

Forgetful chapter is forgetful. That's how memorable it was.

A real chance to show something, but sadly this part was made as generic as vanilla icecream. I expected more dilapidation from the area, an actual place of squalor that matched the bitter, remorseful and dark art loving Snape, but instead he seems to be content living in the suburbs of an upper middle class area of a muggle village. It not only would have set the tone and differentiation between Narcissa supposed wealth being demeaned to step in not only a impoverished area, but a MUGGLE impoverished area, but also differentiate itself from Slughorn's hidey hole. Almost looked like they were neighbours.


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