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  #281  
Old August 16th, 2010, 4:45 pm
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Re: Battlestar Galactica

Glad you're enjoying the show so far, Fleur.


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  #282  
Old August 17th, 2010, 3:58 am
FleurduJardin  Female.gif FleurduJardin is offline
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Re: Battlestar Galactica

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I'm so glad a newcomer to the series likes it! I am curious as to what you think is illogical and unbelievable in the series.
Well, Number Eight, there are just a few small things that either puzzle or bother me - or my husband, and we don't always agree on some of the things.

One thing we both agree on is that Dr. Cottle seems to be the only doctor for the whole fleet, and that he has to "do his rounds" so to speak. At the beginning, when Roslin wants to see him, he's off-ship and no one is standing in (not even a nurse or medic) although at the time she says all she wants is to consult a doctor for some "allergies". We learn later that in fact she has incurable cancer (that cancer that comes and go is also mighty convenient, btw). The only other doctor we've seen up to now (the start of the 4th season) is that civilian doctor who's a racist and deliberately kills off Sagitarrons. When Adama Sr. is shot, Cottle is again off-ship, there are only medics around. Is it credible that there wouldn't be a doctor, at least among the civilian pasengers, one who could be there just a bit faster than wherever Cottle was off to? Mandrake (the friend who recommended the series to us) argues that there was no reason to have more than one doctor aboard a ship that was going to be decommissioned, and I agree. But no other doctor at all among 49,000+ people? And where was that anti-Sagitarron civilian doctor when Adama was shot? It's a small detail, but it nagged at us.

Another thing is, when Helo and Caprica-Boomer are on the run on Caprica, they don't see a single other human soul. Where have all the people who were clamoring to get aboard the ship to be evacuated disappear? Granted, some probably went off and found Anders and his Resistance movement, but what about all the others? It'd have been more realistic if Helo had come across at least one or two survivors hiding from the Cylons and maybe helping him. Maybe just a kid or a small family. The whole population of a city doesn't totally vanish like that in a couple of days and weeks, even if hunted and killed off by the Cylons.

We also find the changes of decisions in William Adama as commander and admiral out of character. Especially during the Baltar trial. First he wants Lee to prepare the trial, even sends him his own father's law books, then he's against Lee assisting the defense lawyer, and he doubts his son's integrity in a very insulting way. He knows his son better than that, or should.

The whole "love quadrangle" between Lee, Kara, Dee and Sam also stretches credibility, especially Kara's attitude. I know she's "frakked up" by her terrible childhood, but the way she treats both Lee and Sam, and insults Dee... The way she says she'll leave Anders (after having moved heaven and earth to take him off Caprica) then marries him the next day - it's over the top. And then the next episode, everybody's best friends again as if nothing had happened (Dee and Anders are consistent, the other two... ). The only time they behave credibly is when Starbuck is reluctant to ask Lee for help when Anders is sick, and he responds coldly (though we never find out what he'd have done, as the Cylons choose that moment to attack New Caprica.) - And that whole boxing match!!!

Laura Roslin seriously gets on my nerves, but that, actually, is not a criticism, it shows the writers did a good job of characterization.

Another thing that bothers me is that, in that totally gender-equal society, where men and men have the same rights and talents and are treated exactly the same, the female military officers are addressed as "Sir". Why not "Ma'am"? In the US armed forces (and this show is based on the USA, even Colonial One is modelled on Air Force One), they say "Ma'am", not "Sir". (My husband was in he Air Force, and I've watched enough military/war shows and movies to know that in the US, female officers are "Ma'am" to those of lower ranks. That too, is only a detail, but being a linguist and a feminist, it's a detail that rattles me.

I think this will do for a start. I'll come in later with more, as I remember them and as the show goes along. I'll be interested in your response. Mandrake was so upset by my criticism that she stopped discussing the show with me on the other site.



Last edited by FleurduJardin; August 17th, 2010 at 4:00 am.
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  #283  
Old August 17th, 2010, 4:31 am
NumberEight  Male.gif NumberEight is offline
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Re: Battlestar Galactica

Thanks for the input, Fleur. Based on your complaints, you may hate the show after the series finale, as many now do.

The doctor complaint is perfectly valid. It doesn't make much sense from a logical standpoint. But from a writing point of view, it gave us an interesting and lovable character.

Helo and Sharon on Caprica: Those who were left by the helicopter were more than likely found and killed. Those not with Anders most likely did not have the resources to defend themselves and/or to find radiation treatments.

Kara: She's a despicable character. She has always been that way. I've known women like her so what you have mentioned about her development doesn't bother me. I love "Unfinished Business," to be honest. The characters completely vent their frustrations.

Adama during the trial: Adama is hearing things he probably never knew about Baltar's presidency, if I remember correctly. The testimonies alone would emit a feeling of disgust for his son, who is defending a man he now hates with a passion.

As for the gender-equality issue, well, I don't care about that. It doesn't bother me. I would be flattered if I was addressed as "Sir" if I was a female officer, as it would make me feel equal to my male counterparts.

Edit: I may not have time to fully discuss the series as school is about to start up, but I'll do my best. If you want, send me a PM and I'll give you my AIM screen name so it will be easier.



Last edited by NumberEight; August 17th, 2010 at 4:39 am.
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  #284  
Old August 17th, 2010, 5:41 am
FleurduJardin  Female.gif FleurduJardin is offline
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Re: Battlestar Galactica

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Originally Posted by NumberEight View Post
Thanks for the input, Fleur. Based on your complaints, you may hate the show after the series finale, as many now do.
Well, we'll have to wait until we get there. Then I'll let you know.

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The doctor complaint is perfectly valid. It doesn't make much sense from a logical standpoint. But from a writing point of view, it gave us an interesting and lovable character.
Agreed. This, after all, is not real life.

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Helo and Sharon on Caprica: Those who were left by the helicopter were more than likely found and killed. Those not with Anders most likely did not have the resources to defend themselves and/or to find radiation treatments.
Hmm... In all the "apocalypse/invasion of aliens or rebel robots" stories I've read or seen, there's always a small core of survivors. People can hide, and find radiation treatment - this is their city, they should know where to go, sneak in at night, whatever. No "genocide" is ever complete, there are always survivors. But we'll let that pass, it would have unnecessarily compicated the plot of those episodes.

Quote:
Kara: She's a despicable character. She has always been that way. I've known women like her so what you have mentioned about her development doesn't bother me. I love "Unfinished Business," to be honest. The characters completely vent their frustrations.
It was an interesting episode all right. It's just that I could have slapped Kara and shaken her until her teeth rattled, and enjoyed every second.

Quote:
Adama during the trial: Adama is hearing things he probably never knew about Baltar's presidency, if I remember correctly. The testimonies alone would emit a feeling of disgust for his son, who is defending a man he now hates with a passion.
I see your point, but Adama is essentially fair, and he loves his son. It's not like him to question Lee's integrity when Lee's only doing what he's supposed to do as a defense lawyer.

Quote:
As for the gender-equality issue, well, I don't care about that. It doesn't bother me. I would be flattered if I was addressed as "Sir" if I was a female officer, as it would make me feel equal to my male counterparts.
That's where we disagree, you see. Being called "Ma'am" with the same respect for the same rank does a lot more about gender equality than being called by the male name. It implies that the masculine is superior to the feminine, and that's what I'm passionately fighting against regarding function titles and forms of address. I would absolutely HATE to be called "Sir". Just look at my latest posts in the "Misconceptions about Feminism" thread in the DoIMC. But that debate doesn't belong here.

Quote:
Edit: I may not have time to fully discuss the series as school is about to start up, but I'll do my best. If you want, send me a PM and I'll give you my AIM screen name so it will be easier.
That's all right. We have all the time in the world.

I will send you an owl, though, if I get to a particularly puzzling or annoying scene or episode.



Last edited by FleurduJardin; August 17th, 2010 at 5:44 am.
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  #285  
Old August 17th, 2010, 5:49 am
NumberEight  Male.gif NumberEight is offline
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Re: Battlestar Galactica

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Originally Posted by FleurduJardin View Post
Hmm... In all the "apocalypse/invasion of aliens or rebel robts" stories I've read or seen, there's always a small core of survivors. People can hide, and find radiation treatment - this is their city, they should know where to go, sneak in at night, whatever. No "genocide" is ever complete, there are always survivors. But we'll let that pass, it would have unnecessarily compicated the plot of those episodes.
How many of them have access to anti-radiation meds? Also, recall the season two episode "The Farm," where women were gathered so the Cylons could perform breeding research.

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Originally Posted by FleurduJardin View Post
I see your point, but Adama is essentially fair, and he loves his son. It's not like him to question Lee's integrity when Lee's only doing what he's supposed to do as a defense lawyer.
He was also drunk. Adama has been disappointed with Lee many times in the series, most notably when Lee went off with Roslin to Kobol.

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Originally Posted by FleurduJardin View Post
That's where we disagree, you see. Being called "Ma'am" with the same respect for the same rank does a lot more about gender equality than being called by the male name. It implies that the masculine is superior to the feminine, and that's what I'm passionately fighting against regarding function titles and forms of address. I would absolutely HATE to be called "Sir". Just look at my latest posts in the "Misconceptions about Feminism" thread in the DoIMC. But that debate doesn't belong here.
I don't have access to that section due to personal request so I don't get involved in discussions about religion. I understand your viewpoint and I concede.


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  #286  
Old August 17th, 2010, 7:43 am
FleurduJardin  Female.gif FleurduJardin is offline
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Re: Battlestar Galactica

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How many of them have access to anti-radiation meds? Also, recall the season two episode "The Farm," where women were gathered so the Cylons could perform breeding research.
I remember it. But the Cylons can't have rounded up ALL the women, men and children on Caprica. It's just not credible.

The inhabitants of Caprica City would know where the hospitals are, and the anti-radiation meds. Some of them may be doctors, nurses, paramedics, or simply have been treated in one of those facilities. In a world where nuclear war is the norm, that would make sense.

Imagine a city in the US, or France, or wherever, was invaded and conquered, then abandoned. There would be survivors, and they would know where the mecical facilities were, I'd think.

Quote:
He was also drunk. Adama has been disappointed with Lee many times in the series, most notably when Lee went off with Roslin to Kobol.
True, but now he's, as Lee puts it, "Roslin's wet nurse". So he changed his mind about her, like he did about many things. And deep down, he does love and respect his son for the man he is.

We've just finished watching "Six of One" - my husband fell asleep in the middle of it, so I turned it off and went back to my computer. I'll probably find out before you respond, but where is Lee going? Of course I'm not going to ask you if Kara finds Earth again... I'll find out soon enough.

Changing the subject a bit, did you watch that UN panel? I did, before I watched the series. I think I'll give it another go after I finish watching. They show clips of the series, but at the time I had no idea who was who - Mandrake warned me that there would be spoilers, but they weren't, really, because I didn't know what was going on. I think it'll be interesting to see the debate again after having seen the whole series. If you do watch the panel, let me know what you think. It's very unusual for the UN to hold a panel discussing the topics raised in a TV series, an SF series at that.

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I don't have access to that section due to personal request so I don't get involved in discussions about religion. I understand your viewpoint and I concede.
The DoIMC isn't just about religion, in fact very little in it is about religion, that's more in the Office of Culture. Anyway, I stay away from religious debates myself, it degenerates too easily into a fight, and then the Mods close down the thread or the whole subforum.

I participate mostly in the discussions about feminism, and also about the Muslim Veil - not from the religious, but from the political and social point of view.

Thanks for being so understanding of my viewpoint. I wish some of the debaters in the DoIMC were as tolerant and gracious as you are.


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  #287  
Old August 17th, 2010, 7:13 pm
NumberEight  Male.gif NumberEight is offline
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Re: Battlestar Galactica

There are most likely survivors but it's a waste of screen time to show them when they won't advance the plot. Does Anders mention other survivors on Caprica in season two? It's been a while since I've watched the show.

I haven't seen the UN Panel. It is strange indeed that one would be held to discuss a science fiction series. I maintain that the show's social commentary is outstanding, especially in the episode "Taking a Break From All Your Worries" when Baltar is being tortured. The voter fraud at the end of season two shows how desperate some people would be in such a situation, where people are voting for someone who is new and has different ideas about where the fleet should be heading. The scenes on New Caprica are devastating and some viewers see them as a parallel to what is going on in Iraq. I'll watch some of the panel now.

By the way, I like the fourth season the most.


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  #288  
Old August 18th, 2010, 12:24 am
FleurduJardin  Female.gif FleurduJardin is offline
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Re: Battlestar Galactica

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There are most likely survivors but it's a waste of screen time to show them when they won't advance the plot. Does Anders mention other survivors on Caprica in season two? It's been a while since I've watched the show.
No Anders doesn't mention other survivors and yes you're right, it wouldn't advance the plot, but it would be more realistic... Guess I've read too many SF stories of survivors in destructed cities.

Quote:
I haven't seen the UN Panel. It is strange indeed that one would be held to discuss a science fiction series. I maintain that the show's social commentary is outstanding, especially in the episode "Taking a Break From All Your Worries" when Baltar is being tortured. The voter fraud at the end of season two shows how desperate some people would be in such a situation, where people are voting for someone who is new and has different ideas about where the fleet should be heading. The scenes on New Caprica are devastating and some viewers see them as a parallel to what is going on in Iraq. I'll watch some of the panel now.
That the UN would hold a panel based on an SF TV series is truly exceptional. I've worked for the UN for over 35 years, and that had never happened before.

Yes, the social commentary is outstanding.

Voter fraud... My heavens, that is so frequent these days, even outside totalitarian countries... Sad commentary on how little people trust democracy to work. Mind you, sometimes their mistrust is not misplaced. After all, Hitler was elected democratically, wasn't he? It's so easy to manipulate the masses... And then of course there are those who want to win election or re-election at any cost. Like in certain countries where the "elected" leader gets 99% (when it's not 115%, ) of the votes... or where they amend the Constitution so that the deceased leader can be succeeded by his under-the-legal-age-to-be-president son. There's a fairly recent example of that, and the son in question was elected by a resounding majority. Yeah, right. At least on BSG Roslin did it for what she thought was a good cause. It's interesting to speculate what she would have done had she been in Baltar's place when the Cylons invaded.

Watching the clips from the panel made me think of Iraq right away. After all, GW Bush started the war in 2003, and the show debuted the year after. All those torture scenes, and the suicide bombings... All that existed before, but it was worse after the start of the Iraq war.

Quote:
By the way, I like the fourth season the most.
I'll have to get back to you on this, for at this point we've only watched 2 episodes of the 4th season.



Last edited by FleurduJardin; August 18th, 2010 at 12:35 am. Reason: ETA
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  #289  
Old August 18th, 2010, 12:43 am
NumberEight  Male.gif NumberEight is offline
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Re: Battlestar Galactica

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Originally Posted by FleurduJardin View Post
Watching the clips from the panel made me think of Iraq right away. After all, GW Bush started the war in 2003, and the show debuted the year after. All those torture scenes, and the suicide bombings... All that existed before, but it was worse after the start of the Iraq war.
I like the comment David Eicke made in the first half-hour of the panel about the episode "Flesh and Bone" when Leoben is being tortured. He said that in a traditional show, the audience would know that Leoben knew the location of the nuclear weapon.

What I like about BSG's use of torture is that it shows what it does to those who use the method, and those who witness the results. Stuff like 24 had Bauer using it all the time and not being phased one bit about doing that to a fellow human being. Baltar's emotion after seeing Gina in her cage is heartbreaking.


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  #290  
Old August 18th, 2010, 11:46 pm
FleurduJardin  Female.gif FleurduJardin is offline
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Re: Battlestar Galactica

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What I like about BSG's use of torture is that it shows what it does to those who use the method, and those who witness the results. Stuff like 24 had Bauer using it all the time and not being phased one bit about doing that to a fellow human being. Baltar's emotion after seeing Gina in her cage is heartbreaking.
I'm with you there. I never watched "24" so I'm not familiar with what Bauer did or didn't do or feel, but if he did torture and it didn't affect him in any way, then he wasn't human, or he was a sadist. Mind you, it didn't seem to affect Starbuck all that much either to hurt people either physically or emotionally.

What is really awful in real life is torture for torture's sake, without the "excuse" of extracting information. The way the Tibetan freedom fighters detainees in Chinese jails are treated is a case in point. Some human beings, unfortunately, just enjoy inflicting pain for its own sake. That's the kind of people who join the "harsh interrogation technicians" or most secret police outfits in the world, whatever the country.

Back to BSG itself, something else that bothered me from the start, and that's Baltar's and the BSG top brass' attitude towards the results of Baltar's "Cylon Detector".

When he tests Boomer, the lights show up solid bright red, but he tells her that it's all green, that she's human. He also says that about everyone he tested, including Tigh, who, we now know, is a Cylon. His "explanation" is that his detector was still at the testing stage and is not reliable, but he obviously lied about Boomer, because we saw that the detector did work. So what was his motive in lying? The easy answer is that he's the last of the "Final Five" but I haven't come to that part yet, so I don't know.

As to the top brass of BSG, how could they be so credulous as to believe Baltar that everyone at the top tested "green", that there was not a single Cylon among them? They knew there were Cylons on board, and it goes to reason that the first posts they'd try for are command posts, or at least very sensitive posts. That Tigh, who, before he discovered he was a Cylon himself, was one of the worst Cylon haters, trusts Baltar's word is stretching it. Ditto Roslin, who's so ready to believe everyone she doesn't like is a Cylon, and yet she takes Baltar's word that all the top people he tested are human. Not credible.

Also, if someone as old as Tigh, who goes way back as a buddy to William Adama since the first Cylon War, can be a Cylon... Does that mean the Cylons planned this at least 60 years or so ago? I haven't seen the 1978 or the 1980 series, nor did I see the prequels "Caprica" and evidently not "Flesh and Bronze" (which is going to air this fall or the next, I don't remember which) - but when exactly did the robots become not only sentient but great strategists and long-term planners?

ETA - Correction. It's not "Flesh and Bronze" but "Flesh an Chrome" - Or is it "Blood and Chrome"? I can't be sure now. Anyway, that's the prequel that's in the works.

Though it's all so complicated that once we finish watching the 2004 series, I think we'll be BSG'd out! We're already skipping all the webisodes (just look at the synopsis on-line) and we'll probably put aside de 1978 and 1980 series for later (much later) viewing.

Especially in the fourth season of the 2004 series, our heads are spinning at the end of each episode...



Last edited by FleurduJardin; August 19th, 2010 at 10:30 pm. Reason: ETA
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  #291  
Old August 25th, 2010, 1:00 am
Muggle_Magic  Male.gif Muggle_Magic is offline
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Re: Battlestar Galactica

You know what bothers me in this show? It's that very few characters are really likable. Especially the female characters. Starbuck and Ellen Tigh are really the-b-word-Molly-called-Bellatrix, and then some. Roslin is irritating beyond bearing. Admiral Adama is annoying and changes his mind too easily and too often for a commander. Also annoying is his obsession with oral hygiene, you see him brush his teeth at least three times or more... He's the only space commander (including the Star Trek captains, the Babylon 5 commanders and the Serenity/Firefly one) one sees doing his morning ablutions in so much detail. What does that add to the plot??? (and then the reward for a mission well-flown is a tube of toothpaste... Do I detect an oral hygiene fetish here?) Gaius Baltar is someone you want to slap and shake. The only ones I like are Gaeta (in all his complexity), Helo and Apollo.

As to the women, some of them are really pretty, but none of them would I consider for a date... Except maybe Lucy Lawless, and that only because I liked her as Xena Warrior Princess. Number Six does have an attractive cleavage and wonderful legs but I get mixed up between all the different copies. Ditto Number Eight (sorry, NumberEight the CoS member, you must like her a lot if you took her as your username) - She could be likable, but there are just too many copies of her, and the poor things keep either killed or thrown in the brig. Grace Park is very pretty, though.

As to the ending... Since Fleur hasn't finished watching the show I won't spoil it for her but, Fleur, let us know when you're done, and I'll come in with a few choice comments.


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  #292  
Old August 27th, 2010, 4:11 am
FleurduJardin  Female.gif FleurduJardin is offline
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Re: Battlestar Galactica

We finished watching the final episodes this evening. I don't see, NumberEight, why you thought I'd hate the show after that. I don't, though I do have a few criticisms of the finale.

I'm assuming everyone who posts in this thread has seen the series, so forgive me if my response is full of spoilers. To err on the side of caution, I'll put it in expand tags.

Reflections on the Finale:    


  First, it was anticlimactic, after all the action preceding it. At times, it was dragging, with all those flashbacks (can anyone explain to me the significance of the pigeon that Lee sees in his apartment several times?) - I didn't think they were necessary to the plot, looked more like filling in the time.

I do have problems seeing Starbuck as an "angel". She's as far from an angel as I can imagine. And the thought that all of humankind is descended from a half-human, half-cylon woman is kind of hard to take.

Anders flying the fleet into the Sun is a great idea though, I loved that one. Also when he told Starbuck "I'll see you on the other side."

But you know what I thought of all through the episode, after I found out that they were going to settle on Earth with minimal technology? I thought of James Hogan's Inherit the Stars, because it has a very similar ending. A handful of survivors of a nuclear war on a planet that the present-day scientists (in the book) call Minerva find themselves stranded on our Moon. No air on the moon, no way of surviving, no way of going home because Minerva has been so totally destroyed by the nuclear conflict that it exploded and became what is now the asteroid belt (a very ingenious explanation for how the asteroid belt was formed!) - so that handful put together whatever resources they have and make a desperate attempt to cross from the Moon to Earth and settle there. They also have minimum technology left, no way to build power plants or to mine coal or oil, so they make do with what they have.

This also explain why the "missing link" is missing. Whoever was there when the Minervans landed (Cro-Magnon or Neanderthal, I never remember which is which) didn't have a chance faced with this group of tough, resourceful, highly intelligent, technologically advanced people. (Though they've lost their technology and their machines, they know what is possible.)

It's an extremely ingenious and captivating book, though the science and technology part makes for a bit dry reading at times. I recommend it to SF fans, especially hard SF (as opposed to Fantasy).
  



And, as far as "space opera" series with dirty politics, torture, religion, moral ambiguity, love and other RL issues mixed in, well, I still prefer Babylon 5 to BSG.


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  #293  
Old August 27th, 2010, 3:27 pm
NumberEight  Male.gif NumberEight is offline
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Re: Battlestar Galactica

See, on a forum I frequent, the finale ruined the entire series for many as it didn't make sense to them. They went through and posited what would happen after the abandonment of technology. Of course, they came to the conclusion that everyone would die out pretty soon. They also didn't like how every loose end wasn't tied up. What's funny is that people scoffed at the idea of Starbuck being an angel, which was revealed in Razor.; the series has a lot of religious stuff in it, so for them to get upset that she's an angel is just... stupid.

I like the flashbacks because it once again demonstrates that the show is a character piece first and foremost (Which Moore mentioned in a few interviews after the finale). The flashbacks are a great showcase of where the main characters were before the attack on the Colonies and where they are at in the finale.


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  #294  
Old August 30th, 2010, 12:16 am
FleurduJardin  Female.gif FleurduJardin is offline
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Re: Battlestar Galactica

Well, especially after having read "Inherit the Stars", the abandonment of technology didn't surprise or shock me. Besides, the Galactica survivors didn't have much choice. They didn't have enough resources left to build a technological civilization in a few years. Mankind had to go back to square one, so to speak, and climb back up. Apparently, it wasn't even the first time if certain speculations are to be believed. I don't at all think that the colonists would die out. Mankind is more resilient and resourceful than that, and have proved it time and again, in real-life history. The human race can survive under the most atrocious conditions, and then build another life and start again.

The fact that we are supposedly all descended from a half-Cylon (Hera Agathon) is a bit more difficult to swallow. And honestly, call me stupid if you like, but I can't think of anyone less "angelic" than Kara Thrace with her foul-mouthed, amoral, hard-living, hard-playing, cheating (on her husband) ways. Ah well. The ways of the Gods are unfathomable.

I found the flashbacks anticlimactic in the second Daybreak episode, because it came after all the breakneck action in the first episode. On the other hand, I liked them in "The Plan" - It was very interesting to see what the characters did that wasn't shown in the series itself. I particularly liked the insight that Boomer had "missed" killing Adama on purpose, just as Simon airlocked himself rather than obey Cavil.

Anyway, now my husband and I went back to the 1978 series and we're having a ball. It's so unsophisticated, compared to the 2004 series - and I couldn't believe how un-feminist they still were, like Apollo not wanting his bride to be a Viper pilot, or Adama praising her cooking. It's so outdated it's actually fun to watch.


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  #295  
Old August 30th, 2010, 1:23 am
NumberEight  Male.gif NumberEight is offline
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Re: Battlestar Galactica

What do you think about the seres' score, Fleur? It's the best music I've ever heard for a television series. The season four album is phenomenal. Check out "Elegy", "The Cult of Baltar," and "An Easterly View".

Here's what I wrote about the series on my blog in an article for what I perceive to be the best television shows of the past decade.

Quote:
This reboot of a horrendously campy television series from the late 1970s took a different turn: it became dark. Did the show really need to be re-imagined? No, it did not, but I am glad it did. The re-imagined series created by Ronald D. Moore has set the course for future science fiction endeavors in the television medium, with many even calling the new series Stargate Universe a rip-off in regards to tone and characterization.

What makes Battlestar Galactica so great? The answer lies in the compelling drama, the social commentary, and the acting. What other television series has presented moral quandaries better or on par with Galactica’s? Yes, there are obvious allegories to our current times, but it works. Edward James Olmos has never been better; Michael Hogan rocks as Colonel Tigh; and James Callis portrays undeniably the most interesting character in the series. And I must mention Bear McCreary as I believe he has set a bench mark for television scores.

Even with a weak and much-hated series finale, Battlestar Galactica is still one of the best out there.


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  #296  
Old August 31st, 2010, 11:56 pm
Muggle_Magic  Male.gif Muggle_Magic is offline
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Re: Battlestar Galactica

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Originally Posted by FleurduJardin View Post
The fact that we are supposedly all descended from a half-Cylon (Hera Agathon) is a bit more difficult to swallow.
Is it easier to swallow that the Vietnamese people are descended from a Dragon King and a Fairy Queen?

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Anyway, now my husband and I went back to the 1978 series and we're having a ball. It's so unsophisticated, compared to the 2004 series - and I couldn't believe how un-feminist they still were, like Apollo not wanting his bride to be a Viper pilot, or Adama praising her cooking. It's so outdated it's actually fun to watch.
Though these are shows with the same title, with characters with the same names, it's like comparing apples and oranges. The young guys are all pretty boys, with hair perfectly blown dry, always clean-shaven, and the gals are much too young and uniformly pretty to be believable. The 1978 series is pure fantasy, the 2004 series is nitty-gritty realism.

The older series is very entertaining, though. At least it doesn't strain your intellect.


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  #297  
Old September 1st, 2010, 8:16 am
FleurduJardin  Female.gif FleurduJardin is offline
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Re: Battlestar Galactica

NumberEight, I'm afraid I haven't paid much attention to the score... I'll make an effort to, when I watch the series again, which I probably will. I'll check out the links you gave, but not now since it's past 2 a.m. my time...

I like what you wrote on your blog. You may check out what another fan wrote on another site about the subject.

Comments on BSG:    


   Here's the link to the discussion thread:
BSG and this is what "nevermore" (who calls herself "Mandrake" here on CoS) wrote:

May I revive this old thread, for new BSG is one of my favourite shows - probably the only one I'd put up there with Babylon 5.

I feel that it has a very unique tone to it, a combination of very gritty realism, often quite ugly politics, and a deep interest in religion, mysticism and philosophy. I admire how they managed to put such a unique blend together.

I think the character writing is outstanding in this show. Baltar in particular is every bit as well developed and interesting as Londo and G'kar in Babylon 5. But there are a lot of very well written and acted characters. Adama and Roslin come to mind, as well as the Sharons, Saul Tigh, and Kara Thrace and the various Sixes. Even a lot of the supporting characters are interesting, like Romo Lampkin or Ellen.

I know there's been a lot of disagreement about the series finale, and even though I understand much of the criticism I was still satisfied with it.

As for the original topic, "Battlestar puts Politics in Orbit", last spring the show caused quite a stir as the United Nations hosted a discussion panel with the BSG producers and lead cast and UN employees, on the topics of human rights, terrorism etc. in BSG, talking about how the show addresses these topics as compared to situations in our world. The panel was moderated by Whoopie Goldberg and I found it very interesting.

You can watch the entire two hour panel here, since the UN has graciously uploaded it for fair use purposes:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...5988835138050#

Anyone else like the show?
  



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  #298  
Old September 2nd, 2010, 6:46 am
Muggle_Magic  Male.gif Muggle_Magic is offline
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Re: Battlestar Galactica

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Originally Posted by Harriettepotter View Post
Call me old fashioned but I prefer the origional, I did watch the new series when it came on but didn't like it, they had changed the layout of the programme altogether. Sometimes this works and sometimes it doesn't as is this case. I wonder how many of you have seen the original?
I have, and though it's the same set-up and same characters' names, you can't compare the two, it's like apples and oranges.

The original is just the run-of-the-mill space opera show, the characters are one-dimensional, and it's really dated. All those pretty boys all with hair blow-dried, the gals all model-like pretty and curvy. Lots of shoot-outs (oh, and that episode that was lifter right from the "Shane" movie!) but not a drop of blood - Let's not mention the dialogue: It's fun to watch but it doesn't have the depth, the social/ political commentary, nor the nitty-grittiness of the 2004 series. If anything, the new show errs on the side of realism. I could have done without seeing Starbuck and Adama brushing their teeth, not once but several times.

The original is a series of stand-alone episodes strung together very loosely. The new one is one complex developing story that keeps you on the edge of your seat, eagerly awaiting the next episode, especially with some of the cliff-hangers. A lot like Babylon5.

And Fleur, about the question you posted on the B-5 thread. I've seen both shows and B-5 does it for me, though BSG is right up there among the greatest SF TV shows of all time.


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  #299  
Old September 3rd, 2010, 5:29 am
FleurduJardin  Female.gif FleurduJardin is offline
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Re: Battlestar Galactica

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Originally Posted by Muggle_Magic View Post
I have, and though it's the same set-up and same characters' names, you can't compare the two, it's like apples and oranges.
M_M, you're repeating yourself.

Quote:
The original is a series of stand-alone episodes strung together very loosely.
Yes, that's true. And with a lot "borrowed" from classic movies. Besides the "Shane" episode (they even had lines lifted straight from the movie), there's the "Guns of Navarone" episode. There are also some episodes with very silly plots, like the one about the kind of Frontier Western town with a "constable" (sheriff, complete with star of office) who has a life expectancy of one month (until the next full moon) after he takes office until the BSG group show up.

Isn't it also extraordinary that every planet they come to has a breathable atmosphere, and a human or humanoid population? If there are that many habitable planets in the universe, why are they wasting time and effort searching for Earth? Why not just put down on one of those planets? Like they do on Caprica 2 in the 2004 series?

You're right, you just can't compare the two series. You watch the old one for pure entertainment. The new one does make you think. The UN would never have hosted a panel on the old one!!!


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  #300  
Old September 18th, 2010, 8:00 pm
FleurduJardin  Female.gif FleurduJardin is offline
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Re: Battlestar Galactica

I may not have paid attention to the score, but my husband definitely has, he's humming it all the time now.

We've watched the 1978 series and are now finishing the 1980 series. What struck me is the humour in those - I'll have to watch the 2004 series over again, but I don't remember any scene or line that's laugh-out-loud funny (I mean deliberately so). That's also the difference between BSG 2004 and Babylon 5, where some of the dialogues are priceless, especially some one-liners by Ivanova.

I'll come back with more comments after I've re-watched BSG 2004. This time, I'll concentrate on the plot, dialogue, music and details, since now I know who's who or what. You always have to struggle to place the characters the first time you watch a show, especially one as complex as this one.


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