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  #41  
Old January 8th, 2007, 11:12 pm
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Re: Bleach: the manga and anime.

No...his energy sort of resembled his hollow mask, but Ken-chan also had something like that too. And The girl also had something like that. It was like they were alluding to something only in that one episode and that was it.


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Old February 21st, 2007, 1:48 am
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Re: Bleach: The manga and anime.

Thoughts on the new Arc? Anime I mean

I understand the sense of the Arrancar, but the Vizards and their purpose confuse me alot.

But I'm happy that they finally arrived in the real world. It will be a cool arc for sure.


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  #43  
Old February 21st, 2007, 2:10 am
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Re: Bleach: The manga and anime.

Well we'll have to see who runs the vaizards before we can really decide what they represent. I sort of get the feeling that they were started by Urahara. Since as far as I know he was the only other one to experiment with creating a hollow shinigami combo.

Do you also get the feeling that Aizen may be organizing the Arrancar along the same lines as the shinigami, with a captain class, vice captains and then just low level arrancars?


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  #44  
Old February 21st, 2007, 2:19 am
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Re: Bleach: The manga and anime.

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Well we'll have to see who runs the vaizards before we can really decide what they represent. I sort of get the feeling that they were started by Urahara. Since as far as I know he was the only other one to experiment with creating a hollow shinigami combo.

Do you also get the feeling that Aizen may be organizing the Arrancar along the same lines as the shinigami, with a captain class, vice captains and then just low level arrancars?
Yeah you're right. But I hope it's not Urahara who's responsible for it. And when he is, then they must be good.

Yes, my thought exactly. When not with vice captains. But a handfull of higher Arrancars like captains who have their own "squads".


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Old February 21st, 2007, 3:33 am
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Re: Bleach: The Manga and Anime

well weren't the two that Ichigo fought like mid level arrancar? I think there's one level higher than that which the shinigami said that if Aizen had ten of them on his side, then all of the shinigami might be defeated.


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Old February 21st, 2007, 3:50 am
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Re: Bleach: The Manga and Anime

I actually grew bored of the Bounto arc. I don't mind filler arcs, if they change up every once in a while. I get bored of an arc that lasts for many episodes on the same storyline. That's probably why I didn't mind Naruto filler because it was a different arc every so many episodes and why I had a problem with Bleach's filler and DBZ's. The only prob I had with Naruto's filler was the fact that the dynamic was usually the same.

Maybe I'll start back up after the filler. What episode does the arc after the Bounto one start up?


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  #47  
Old February 21st, 2007, 7:24 am
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Re: Bleach: The Manga and Anime

Well what was nice about the bounto arc was that it was actually written by the guy who does the manga. As opposed to the naruto filler with cooking ninja and postmen ninja which I doubt was written by the manga's writer. The bounto arc wrapped up like 3 or 4 episodes ago I think. Not sure the exact number. Wikipedia may have an exact number.


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  #48  
Old February 21st, 2007, 11:38 am
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Re: Bleach: The Manga and Anime

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well weren't the two that Ichigo fought like mid level arrancar? I think there's one level higher than that which the shinigami said that if Aizen had ten of them on his side, then all of the shinigami might be defeated.
From what I understood are those Ichigo were fighting the highest level, because they are "human" like.

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Maybe I'll start back up after the filler. What episode does the arc after the Bounto one start up?
List of Bleach episodes

The Arrancar Arc started at # 110. We are currently at 115 at the moment.


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Old February 21st, 2007, 2:08 pm
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Re: Bleach: The Manga and Anime

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Well what was nice about the bounto arc was that it was actually written by the guy who does the manga. As opposed to the naruto filler with cooking ninja and postmen ninja which I doubt was written by the manga's writer. The bounto arc wrapped up like 3 or 4 episodes ago I think. Not sure the exact number. Wikipedia may have an exact number.
But as I pointed out before, though lame, the Naruto filler arcs (some), I still liked seeing the other characters outside of Naruto. And, as I pointed out, there were a bunch of different filler arcs as opposed to one long one, so there was always some type of a change. That's why I preferred the Naruto filler to Bleach's or DBZ's filler. I didn't really have time to get bored with Naruto's filler since the arcs usually ended before it even got to that point, although, I did skip a couple because I knew it was going to be too Naruto focused.


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Old February 21st, 2007, 6:48 pm
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Re: Bleach: The Manga and Anime

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But as I pointed out before, though lame, the Naruto filler arcs (some), I still liked seeing the other characters outside of Naruto. And, as I pointed out, there were a bunch of different filler arcs as opposed to one long one, so there was always some type of a change. That's why I preferred the Naruto filler to Bleach's or DBZ's filler. I didn't really have time to get bored with Naruto's filler since the arcs usually ended before it even got to that point, although, I did skip a couple because I knew it was going to be too Naruto focused.
That was the most annoying thing about the Bounto arc - it was far too long. I reckon they could have used at least half the amount of episodes that they used for it. Gosh.

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well weren't the two that Ichigo fought like mid level arrancar? I think there's one level higher than that which the shinigami said that if Aizen had ten of them on his side, then all of the shinigami might be defeated.
Nope. Ulquiorra and Yami are both members of the espada, high level arrancar. Yami obviously isn't as strong as Ulquiorra, but I reckon Ulquiorra could almost beat Urahara, which is a scary thought...

It'll be great when Ichigo can finally control the hollow.

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Ichigo didn't turn into his hollow self. He simply was able to use zangetsu properly at that point. Now yes if Ken-chan could release his zanpaktou sure he'd be insanely more powerful, but still at the time of the fight he couldn't. So at that point since Ichigo still wasn't able to go Bankai and would've been beaten by atleast half the captains, does that mean that since he was more powerful than kenchan, that kenchan was one of the less powerful captains?
Not necessarily. I think at that point Ichigo could have beaten other captains. If you think about it, Ichigo was only marginally stronger than Kenpachi in that fight. Also, as Wikipedia tells me, "Even though Kenpachi doesn't know the name of his sword, his spiritual power is so great that his zanpakutō is constantly released. [...] Changed through their battle, Kenpachi begins his search for his zanpakutō's name, so that he can once again challenge Ichigo"

I'd love to see Kenpachi fight Byakuya. Also, do you forsee a fight happening between Isshin and Ryuuken?


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  #51  
Old February 21st, 2007, 9:11 pm
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Re: Bleach: The Manga and Anime

Well with those two I'm pretty sure they were showing their silhouettes when talking about the mid level ones. The high level ones were pretty rare, hence the whole 10 of them would take down all the shinigami. What were they called again? The something lords?

And with Kenpachi I believe you need to know the name of your sword in order to release it. Now if he did release it, he wouldn't be able to seal it again which is what they were talking about. Just like how Ichigo can't do the same with his. I'd also like to see kenpachi fight byakuya too.

I thought the bounto arc was alright in length, though yeah it could've used about 5-8 fewer episodes. The last few dragged it along too much. That and the bounto should've had radically different powers once in the afterlife(blast can't remember the name of the place), instead of just minor upgrades.


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Old February 21st, 2007, 9:26 pm
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Re: Bleach: The Manga and Anime

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Well with those two I'm pretty sure they were showing their silhouettes when talking about the mid level ones. The high level ones were pretty rare, hence the whole 10 of them would take down all the shinigami. What were they called again? The something lords?
Vasto Lorde it is.

1. Gillians
2. Adjuchas
3. Vasto Lorde


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  #53  
Old February 22nd, 2007, 12:58 am
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Re: Bleach: The Manga and Anime

Evidently according to Wiki, its still unclear if Ulquiorra is a Vasto Lorde or not. Though yes his mask has similarities with the horns of a vasto lorde.


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Old February 22nd, 2007, 1:03 am
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Re: Bleach: The Manga and Anime

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Evidently according to Wiki, its still unclear if Ulquiorra is a Vasto Lorde or not. Though yes his mask has similarities with the horns of a vasto lorde.
I see it from this POV:
Toshiro said that Vasto Lorde have so much power, they are able to beat a captain without problems. Ulquiorra is pretty strong, he wasn't impressed by Urahara (who was a captain) and Ichigo. I think that even without "Inner-Hollow-Problems" Ichigo wouldn't be able to defeat him easily.


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  #55  
Old February 22nd, 2007, 1:50 am
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Re: Bleach: The Manga and Anime

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I see it from this POV:
Toshiro said that Vasto Lorde have so much power, they are able to beat a captain without problems. Ulquiorra is pretty strong, he wasn't impressed by Urahara (who was a captain) and Ichigo. I think that even without "Inner-Hollow-Problems" Ichigo wouldn't be able to defeat him easily.
Sure. It's worrying that Ulquiorra could deflect one of Urahara's more powerful attacks with just a wave of his hand. I'd say that Urahara was a bit beyond captain class myself, just as I'd say that Byakuya, Soi Fong and Yoruichi are above the skill level of other captains (Kurotsuchi, (or maybe even hitsugaya) for example).

You're right DJ, it isn't clear whether Ulquiorra is Vastro-Lorde based or not...

Wiki is useful isn't it?

...Vasto lorde-class menos (vastorōde) are the most powerful form a menos can take. They take on a much more humanoid appearance and each one is stronger than an average shinigami captain; Tōshirō Hitsugaya claims that ten of them would be enough to defeat all of Soul Society. They are the least common form of menos (Soul Society does not have definite information on the number of vasto lorde) and are believed to only exist within the very depths of Hueco Mundo. It seems that Sōsuke Aizen has important plans with them which haven't been revealed as of yet. Ulquiorra's mask makes the shape of a "Vasto Lorde" mask, but it is still unclear if he is one or not.

An arrancar (sometimes written allankar or arankaru) is a hollow that has removed its mask and gained shinigami powers. The name arrancar is a Spanish verb meaning "to remove" or "to rip off," a reference to an arrancar's removal of its hollow mask.

Few hollows have the potential to remove their hollow masks normally, and even those that can are quite weak. Sōsuke Aizen is able to artifically create arrancar with the Orb of Distortion, which also gives the new arrancar significantly higher power levels.

Arrancar and ordinary hollows differ in two ways: the location of their holes and the almost-total disappearance of their masks. The natural or weaker arrancar have considerably larger portions of their masks intact and usually do not have their hollow holes moved. When hollow become arrancar, the chances of them retaining a humanoid form increase with their intelligence; only vasto lorde-based arrancar will definitely assume a humanoid form. If powerful enough, an arrancar can seal its power in the form of a zanpakutō. Unlike a shinigami, this zanpakutō is by no means sentient. It is simply the hollow's former form sealed into a sword. Therefore, an arrancar's release of their zanpakutō is merely a temporary restoration of the arrancar's true power and form. Arrancar do not have a known second release.

The arrancar under Sōsuke Aizen's command are arranged into various ranks based on their strength. Not all of the existing arrancar are under Aizen's command, mostly through lack of interest on Aizen's part.

The Espada (十刃, Espada? lit. ten swords; sword in Spanish) are the top-ranked arrancar in Aizen's army. Each Espada member is chosen for their superior combat ability and then assigned a number from 1 to 10 that indicates their rank and relative power level, which is tattooed somewhere on their body (Grimmjow's is on his lower back, for instance). The Espada are given control over the Números. Espada are the most powerful fighters of the Menos and their strength far surpasses the average Número, similar to the power gap between the captains and lieutenants in Gotei 13. The Espada consist of nine males and one female.[2]

The Números (Spanish: numbers) are arrancar who were formerly menos. They are assigned a two digit number at birth from 11 to 99 to indicate their age (Número 11 is the oldest, Número 99 is the youngest). They are regarded as combat specialists. The basic Número uniform consists of a white-collared jacket and robes held with a black sash. However, the uniform is customizable, giving each Número a sense of individuality. The fighting ability of Números is thought to be superior to all other arrancar except for the Espada (current and former).

The Privaron (Spanish: deprived) are former Espada who have lost their rank and are assigned a three-digit number. Being former Espada, they are far stronger than the normal Números. They reside in Tres Cifras, which translates literally from Spanish as "three digits". As mentioned by Dordonii, these former 'naturally created' Espada were rendered obsolete after Aizen began artificially creating arrancar to meet his own standards.[3]

The Exequias (Spanish: funeral) are arrancar that are part of the execution division, apparently charged with dealing against intruders/rebels.[4]


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  #56  
Old February 22nd, 2007, 2:37 am
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Re: Bleach: The Manga and Anime

Well with the shinigami captains, it varies greatly. It seems that power is based more on age than on natural abilities. Like for instance the old man is clearly the most powerful of them. And then the two oldest students of his, Shunsui and whats his name are two of the most powerful. Kenpachi sort of seems like raw power aside is fairly weak as a captain, again since he was beaten by ichigo before ichigo was bankai. Byakuya is fairly powerful but still newbesh. Silver haired kid seems fairly powerful too, and probably has one of the greatest potentials as he ages. Yoruichi(the girl with the stinger thing) seems like one of the weakest and is one of the newest captains too. But then again we haven't seen her bankai. Same thing with the tech captain, he's really not all that powerful, but he is augmented by his experiments on himself, and he's a recent addition to replace urahara.

These are just my own observations.


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  #57  
Old February 22nd, 2007, 2:54 am
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Re: Bleach: The Manga and Anime

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Well with the shinigami captains, it varies greatly. It seems that power is based more on age than on natural abilities. Like for instance the old man is clearly the most powerful of them. And then the two oldest students of his, Shunsui and whats his name are two of the most powerful. Kenpachi sort of seems like raw power aside is fairly weak as a captain, again since he was beaten by ichigo before ichigo was bankai. Byakuya is fairly powerful but still newbesh. Silver haired kid seems fairly powerful too, and probably has one of the greatest potentials as he ages. Yoruichi(the girl with the stinger thing) seems like one of the weakest and is one of the newest captains too. But then again we haven't seen her bankai. Same thing with the tech captain, he's really not all that powerful, but he is augmented by his experiments on himself, and he's a recent addition to replace urahara.

These are just my own observations.
Hm.

Age certainly has something to do with it, but general ability probably counts for more. As well as being the two oldest Captains, Shunsui and Ukitake were both described by Yamamoto as posessing the greatest abilities of all the captains. Also, like Ichigo, the previous lieutenant of Ukitake's squad (I've forgotten his name; he was uncannily like Ichigo) was something of a prodigy, accomplishing in one year what was supposed to take six - becoming very skilled.

It's interesting that we haven't seen Kenpachi using the demon arts at all - I wonder if he has mastered them... What's funny is that his raw power seems to make up for his other weaknesses. This in itself is seemingly his only weakness, but take into account the fact that he is probably stronger than a fair few other captains, not least Komamura and Tousen (who was powerful himself). I doubt Zaraki has found his true power yet.

I find Byakuya problematic. He seemed to be presented as one of the strongest captains, and yet he had a hard time inflicting serious damage on Kariya. In any case, it seems that the margin between him and Ichigo was small, but is getting larger as the series progresses.

It's Soi Fong that has the stinger zanpakutou. She is only slightly weaker than Yoruichi, who is insanely powerful. In my mind, she is one of the more powerful captains. Basically, it seems to me like the strongest characters are: Urahara, Yoruichi, Soi Fong, Ichigo, Byakuya, Rukia (when she gets her powers back - she has an awesome zanpakutou),
Spoiler: show
Isshin
, Shunsui and Ukitake.


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Old February 22nd, 2007, 3:56 am
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Re: Bleach: The Manga and Anime

It's late and I'm too lazy to read through your posts so I apologize for being off topic of you discussin. But I promise I'll read it all tomorrow and catch up with you all.

I like Bleach both manga and anime, but I'm fan of manga. I skipped last anime filler arc, I was bored and I hate when they aren't following the plot. Heh but now that anime is back on tracks and manga is more interesting than ever, Bleach has my full atantion again.

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  #59  
Old February 22nd, 2007, 4:02 am
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Re: Bleach: The Manga and Anime

Well maybe a combination of age and natural ability. They don't really seem to advocate skill at any point in the series. Yeah I agree about byakuya. Its like he's described as the flash step god or whatever, then Shunsui totally owns him with distance in a single flash step. Going what seemed like miles in a single step.
I do think kenpachi can be the most powerful of the captains if he ever actually tried. But unfortunately he (atleast so far) relies too much on his natural abilities. They did insinuate before that Byakuya is more powerful than kenpachi, which makes sense since Ichigo needed bankai. But Kenpachi is more powerful than those other two, beating them handily.
Bleach has a bit of a problem with power leveling, just like DBZ had.


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Old February 22nd, 2007, 12:06 pm
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Re: Bleach: The Manga and Anime

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Well maybe a combination of age and natural ability. They don't really seem to advocate skill at any point in the series. Yeah I agree about byakuya. Its like he's described as the flash step god or whatever, then Shunsui totally owns him with distance in a single flash step. Going what seemed like miles in a single step.
I do think kenpachi can be the most powerful of the captains if he ever actually tried. But unfortunately he (atleast so far) relies too much on his natural abilities. They did insinuate before that Byakuya is more powerful than kenpachi, which makes sense since Ichigo needed bankai. But Kenpachi is more powerful than those other two, beating them handily.
Bleach has a bit of a problem with power leveling, just like DBZ had.
No, they do advocate skill - all the time. Ichigo is always having to face opponents with more and more skill, and consequently has to increase in strength each time to protect his friends. It was Yoruichi who was described as the flash step god, being able to outpace Byakuya whilst out of practice and with an unconscious Ichigo over her shoulder. I think it could be a little clearer about the power levelling, yes...


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