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Developing story: Bin Laden killed



 
 
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  #81  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 2:08 pm
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Re: Developing story: Bin Laden killed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgoth View Post
The death of Bin Laden is not going to eradicate terrorism, I don't think anyone is seriously thinking that's the case. When you kill one tyrant, another emerges. History is full of repetition.
I agree. But it is a cause for celebration that one of the main ones are killed.

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Although as I read somewhere the weekend was like a fairytale story. The Lady married her Prince and the Villain was defeated.
Very true.


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  #82  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 2:10 pm
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Re: Developing story: Bin Laden killed

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Originally Posted by monster_mom View Post
Of course they would have attack us even if he hadn't been killed, and they will likely attack us now that he's dead. But finding him, which apparently involved more than 4 years of careful intelligence chasing ghosts, is a slap in the fact to extremism. Until now every terror leader out there could look to Osama as a symbol of defying the Great Satan. That symbol is now lying at the bottom of the sea with a bullet in his brain.

My thoughts exactly. Symbolically a great victory for us.


  #83  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 2:13 pm
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Re: Developing story: Bin Laden killed

http://www.kctv5.com/osama-bin-laden...45/detail.html - Courtesy of CNN

How Osama was killed.

long quote:    


  In the dark of night, U.S. helicopters approached a high-walled compound in Pakistan on a mission to capture or kill one of the world's most notorious terrorist leaders.
Less than 40 minutes later -- early Monday morning in Pakistan -- Osama bin Laden was dead, along with four others inside the complex, and the U.S. forces departed with the slain al Qaeda leader's body to fulfill a vow that originated shortly after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the United States.
And as he announced the raid at the White House Sunday night, U.S. President Barack Obama called bin Laden's death "the most significant achievement to date in our nation's effort to defeat al Qaeda."

One senior administration official called the investigative "team effort" and a "model of really seamless cooperation" across agencies.
This official and others briefed reporters on further details on the assault on the compound, which they believe was built five years ago for the specific purpose of hiding bin Laden.
The compound is in Abbottabad, about 50 kilometers (31 miles) north of the Pakistani capital of Islamabad. The city sits in a mountainous region of Pakistan and is not heavily populated. Many of the residents are army personnel.
While senior administration officials would not offer a breakdown of the U.S. mission's composition, a senior defense official said U.S. Navy SEALs were involved.
After years of intelligence work and months of following a specific lead, they traced a courier linked to bin Laden to the compound in Abbottabad.
When first built, the compound was secluded and reachable by only a dirt road, the officials said. In recent years, more residences built up around it, but it remained by far the largest and most heavily secured property in the area, they said.
The mission ordered Friday by Obama encountered outer walls up to 18 feet tall topped with barbed wire, with two security gates and a series of internal walls that sectioned off different portions of the compound, the senior administration officials said. The main structure was a three-story building with few windows facing the outside of the compound, and a third-floor terrace had a seven-foot privacy wall, they said.
Months of intelligence work determined that the compound was custom-built to hide a high-value terrorism suspect, almost certainly bin Laden. The officials noted there was no telephone or internet service at the dwelling, which was valued at more than $1 million, and its occupants burned their trash rather than leave it out for collection as other area residents did.

Calling the U.S. operation a surgical raid, officials said it was conducted by a small team and designed to minimize collateral damage. Upon landing, the team encountered resistance from bin Laden and three other men that resulted in a firefight.
In the end, all four of the combatants in the compound were dead, along with a woman whom one of the men used as a human shield, the officials said. Sources said bin Laden was shot in the head.

At some point, one of the assaulting helicopters crashed due to a mechanical failure, according to the officials. It was destroyed as the U.S. team flew away, they said.
Obama and the senior administration officials said no U.S. forces were harmed in the operation, which took place very early Monday morning Pakistan time.
U.S. officials said they used a number of methods to identify the body as bin Laden.
One official said it was clear to the assault force that the body matched bin Laden's description, but they used "facial recognition work, amongst other things, to confirm the identity."

A senior national security official told CNN that they had multiple confirmations that the body was bin Laden, saying they had the "ability to run images of the body and the face."
Another U.S. official told CNN that bin Laden has already been buried at sea. The official said his body was handled in the Islamic tradition, but did not elaborate.

A senior administration official also said bin Laden's body would be "handled in accordance with Islamic practice and tradition. This is something that we take very seriously, and so therefore this is being handled in an appropriate manner."

According to the senior administration officials, intelligence work determined at the beginning of 2011 that bin Laden might be located at the compound in Pakistan. By mid-February, the intelligence was considered strong enough to begin considering action pledged by Obama when bin Laden's whereabouts had been determined.
To discuss that intelligence and develop a plan, Obama chaired five National Security Council meetings from mid-March until late April, with the last two on April 19 and April 28 -- last Thursday. The next day, on Friday, Obama gave the order for the mission, the officials said.

The key break involved one of the few couriers trusted by bin Laden, according to the officials. About two years ago, intelligence work identified where the courier and his brother lived and operated in Pakistan, and it took until August of last year to find the compound in Abbottabad raided Sunday, they said.

"When we saw the compound where the brothers lived, we were shocked by what we saw -- an extraordinarily unique compound," one senior administration official said. "The compound sits on a large plot of land in an area that was relatively secluded when it was built. It is roughly eight times larger than the other homes in the area."
Noting that the courier and his brother had no discernible source of wealth to live at such a property, intelligence analysts concluded the compound was "custom-built to hide someone of extraordinary significance," the official said, adding: "Everything was consistent with what experts thought Osama bin Laden's compound would look like."
Another senior administration official told reporters that Obama's administration did not share intelligence gathered beforehand with any other country -- including Pakistan -- for security reasons. The official said that only a small group of people inside the U.S government knew about this operation in advance.

However, a senior Pakistani intelligence official said members of Pakistan's intelligence service, the ISI, were on site in Abbottabad during the operation. There was no way to immediately resolve the apparent discrepancy.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh, Ed Henry, Tom Cohen, Elise Labott, Pam Benson, Dana Bash, Chris Lawrence and Aliza Kassim contributed to this report
  



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Last edited by Chris; May 2nd, 2011 at 2:17 pm.
  #84  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 2:15 pm
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Re: Developing story: Bin Laden killed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fury View Post
I was cheering (in front of my tv) right along with those people at the White House, as I was watching CNN last night. I don't care what Pakistan says about how he it was a "martyr" death and I would have never supported a trial against him. Osama being dead is the only way justice would have truly been served. If Osama was in custody, Al Qaeda would have done everything they could have to free him, resulting in the deaths of more Americans.

As such, no Americans were killed during the attack on Osama. This is truly a victory, long awaited, for the United States and all allies. We've waited for this for almost 10 years. The day has finally come. Hallelujah!

I am beginning to sense that you are the only one who feels the exact same way I do. This is long over-due. I am very jubilant about this...there is nothing like having to constantly try to get ahold of friends and relatives for days just to make sure they are okay after the attacks.

To Wab: Special Forces were of course not in uniform, but it is how we direct our gratitude to those serving..they are our men and women in uniform. That uniform symbolizes the lack of selfishness those men and women in them have. They preside over the freedoms that us Americans have. So, in no way was I saying that the Special Forces were in fact in uniform.


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  #85  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 2:19 pm
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Re: Developing story: Bin Laden killed

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Originally Posted by Moriath View Post
I doubt that Buckingham Palace would have received a call by Obama, telling them to postpone the honeymoon because of a top secret US military strike in Pakistan.
The Head of State (Queen Liz) would have been briefed by the PM. She is the holder of more state secrets than any other person in the UK as all PM's are required to brief the HoS on all matters of national security. Whilst it may be a stretch to link the two events together and your logic does seem sound in hindsight, it's entirely plausible (Royal Wedding/Honeymoon aside) that the Queen herself was aware of the intelligence operation, assuming the Americans had briefed the British, which I imagine they did at some stage but maybe not until the operation reached zero hour.


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  #86  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 2:22 pm
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Re: Developing story: Bin Laden killed

I now edited my earlier post, and corrected it to Taliban. Sorry about that.


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  #87  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 2:27 pm
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Re: Developing story: Bin Laden killed

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Originally Posted by alwaysme View Post
Do you honestly think that these extremists wouldn't have attacked us or other targets if they got the chance to anyways?
On a theoretical level I believe violence always creates counter violence, no matter who is right, wrong or started the whole thing with what actions. In the current fight against terrorism we apparently have two (or more) very strong parties, so one wouldn't stop if the other strikes back.

For practical views I've already said above I don't think there was another possibility for the US than to hunt him down. But there are several levels to it. One is that I think it was important more for the US than for the (current!) fight against terrorism; the article lilyrose linked to is quite interesting in this prospect. That still doesn't make the need to hunt and find Bin Laden less important for what he's done alone, but I believe we indeed should make sure to not assume he was still directly leading Al Qaeda's groups. This just seems to be very unlikely.

A second is that it's my conviction that such a 'battle' never can be fought with arms only. There are ways of understanding and communication which imo need to go along with forced hunts, otherwise terrorism will never stop. I don't think it's a possibility to simply kill every terrorist on earth, and even if it were I didn't support it. Taking their ideological base away (eg instead of feeding it) is surely a long-term project, but in my view the more successful way as well.

There's, I think, nothing to say against being relieved that Osama bin Laden faced the consequences of his attacks, but I also believe this won't get us any further in our aim to end terrorism or at least reduce it.


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  #88  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 2:27 pm
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Re: Developing story: Bin Laden killed

Although I feel rather victorious with the death of Bin Laden, to me something regarding this whole "attack" is rather off...
I know that they laid him to rest at sea for fear of a great retaliation spilling onto American soil...but what I can't understand is the fact that no one from the Taliban has commented or lashed out at his passing. Currently, I am watching the news coverage of all of this, and they still insist there has been no apparent response. I do have my doubts regarding the entire situation, but I will not post those here.

Does anyone else find this fishy? Still though, very very happy.


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  #89  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 2:31 pm
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Re: Developing story: Bin Laden killed

From what I read, Islamic law requires a burial within 24 hours from the time of death.


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  #90  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 2:34 pm
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Re: Developing story: Bin Laden killed

Quote:
Originally Posted by gertiekeddle View Post
On a theoretical level I believe violence always creates counter violence, no matter who is right, wrong or started the whole thing with what actions. In the current fight against terrorism we apparently have two (or more) very strong parties, so one wouldn't stop if the other strikes back.

For practical views I've already said above I don't think there was another possibility for the US than to hunt him down. But there are several levels to it. One is that I think it was important more for the US than for the (current!) fight against terrorism; the article lilyrose linked to is quite interesting in this prospect. That still doesn't make the need to hunt and find Bin Laden less important for what he's done alone, but I believe we indeed should make sure to not assume he was still directly leading Al Qaeda's groups. This just seems to be very unlikely.

A second is that it's my conviction that such a 'battle' never can be fought with arms only. There are ways of understanding and communication which imo need to go along with forced hunts, otherwise terrorism will never stop. I don't think it's a possibility to simply kill every terrorist on earth, and even if it were I didn't support it. Taking their ideological base away (eg instead of feeding it) is surely a long-term project, but in my view the more successful way as well.

There's, I think, nothing to say against being relieved that Osama bin Laden faced the consequences of his attacks, but I also believe this won't get us any further in our aim to end terrorism or at least reduce it.
It won't stop terrorism and it would be naive to think so. The feeling of jubilation and relief is very understandable. After all these years I just hope this helps 9/11 families feel a bit better. As well as our Armed forces who have been waged in a war for years now. This is justice for Americans.


  #91  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 2:35 pm
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Re: Developing story: Bin Laden killed

Quote:
Originally Posted by gertiekeddle View Post
A second is that it's my conviction that such a 'battle' never can be fought with arms only. There are ways of understanding and communication which imo need to go along with forced hunts, otherwise terrorism will never stop. I don't think it's a possibility to simply kill every terrorist on earth, and even if it were I didn't support it. Taking their ideological base away (eg instead of feeding it) is surely a long-term project, but in my view the more successful way as well.
You make a very good point. Terrorism wouldn't have a foundation if the problems leading to it ceased to exist.


  #92  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 2:39 pm
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Re: Developing story: Bin Laden killed

Quote:
Originally Posted by alwaysme View Post
It won't stop terrorism and it would be naive to think so. The feeling of jubilation and relief is very understandable. After all these years I just hope this helps 9/11 families feel a bit better. As well as our Armed forces who have been waged in a war for years now. This is justice for Americans.
Agreeing a lot. The jubilation (others than the relief) comes still along slightly odd for someone like me, but I'm nonetheless able to understand this reaction as well. If it helps the 9/11 families to deal with this whole major event, there's one more rather positive thing to Osama's death. That's said I don't believe terrorism started in 2001, so it might help everyone quite much if general structures rather than single persons - whatever they might symbolize - came to an end.


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  #93  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 2:46 pm
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Re: Developing story: Bin Laden killed

Quote:
Originally Posted by gertiekeddle View Post
For practical views I've already said above I don't think there was another possibility for the US than to hunt him down. But there are several levels to it. One is that I think it was important more for the US than for the (current!) fight against terrorism; the article lilyrose linked to is quite interesting in this prospect. That still doesn't make the need to hunt and find Bin Laden less important for what he's done alone, but I believe we indeed should make sure to not assume he was still directly leading Al Qaeda's groups. This just seems to be very unlikely.
Very true. In fact, BBC's correspondent Frank Gardner has said that Osama Bin Laden has not really been part of al-Qaeda operations for the past 10 years. He's been too busy hiding and releasing videos that the actual operations part has been carried out by someone else. The ideologies that he has spread are poisonous and surely won't die with him.

Gardner also says something which I very much agree with, concerning the role (or lack of it) of Pakistan, especially the ISI, in the killing of Osama.

Quote:
It was "very significant" the US did not inform the Pakistani intelligence services until after the operation had been carried out: "The US simply couldn't trust the ISI not to tip off Bin Laden's people. It happened before in 1998 when President Clinton ordered the firing of cruise missiles at Bin Laden's camps in response to the bombing of US embassies in Africa. Somebody tipped off Bin Laden's people, the camps were emptied and the death toll was one goat, one shed and a few followers."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698


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  #94  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 2:48 pm
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Re: Developing story: Bin Laden killed

ABC Exclusive: Inside the building where Osama was living and was killed;

Warning: Pictures contain bloodstains.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...-zone-13508190


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  #95  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 3:09 pm
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Re: Developing story: Bin Laden killed

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_mom View Post
That symbol is now lying at the bottom of the sea with a bullet in his brain.
So nobody can dance on his grave apparently

Of course there will be attempts to commit atrocities as a response but they were going to happen anyway. To me this shows clearly the importance of intelligence - We are not going to defeat them by having bigger and better weapons but by using our brains


  #96  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 3:11 pm
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Re: Developing story: Bin Laden killed

Fox News is using "Usama" hashtag on Twitter and others do as well. Could it be "USA + Osama = Usama"?


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  #97  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 3:20 pm
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Re: Developing story: Bin Laden killed

The typos are likely the result of trying to get the word out fast, and the use of "Usama" is actually closer to what the US government agencies use. I don't think either of those is a big deal or signs of something other than it's a typo. I do wonder how long they were on - I know someone used to track the Drudge headlines, and I'd be shocked if there isn't a minute-by-minute repository of the Fox News headlines online somewhere, just to make sure every last mistake is captured.

Regarding the actual operation, sounds almost textbook - including the backup chopper coming in fast since one of the primaries had to land with an "issue". The US also seems to be going out of its way at a government level to try to take the high road and to leave the remaining militants with less angles to go "hey, they disrespected us". The US people's reactions have been far more emotional, thus far - quite understandable, but it'll take a couple of days before people begin catching up en masse to the concept that this is a huge symbolic victory but that it doesn't actually do much about the most immediate AQ threats.

The timing of everything - the announcement, the raid, everything - suggests that this was played straight and that attempts to try and read anything into the timing of things is probably mistaken.

As a quick "ETA", I think the next few days may end up being a bit of a roller-coaster ride with news of retaliatory attempts / etc. There may also be some fast action on intelligence info gathered at the compound (presuming they got any, which is a fairly safe bet). That could end up being a "race", though, since almost certainly anyone who knows that the compound has info on them is trying to get out of the way.


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Last edited by Chris; May 2nd, 2011 at 3:25 pm.
  #98  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 3:20 pm
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Re: Developing story: Bin Laden killed

On CNN, they said "Sources: This was a "kill mission."

Means it was "intent to kill, not to capture." They never planned on capturing him.


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  #99  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 3:31 pm
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Re: Developing story: Bin Laden killed

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Originally Posted by Fury View Post
On CNN, they said "Sources: This was a "kill mission." Means it was "intent to kill, not to capture." They never planned on capturing him.
Is that a surprise?


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  #100  
Old May 2nd, 2011, 3:50 pm
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Re: Developing story: Bin Laden killed

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Originally Posted by Midnightsfire View Post
Is that a surprise?
No, I was just stating this for those people who thought it was better to capture him for a trial.


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