Login  
 
 
Go Back   Chamber of Secrets > Forum Archives > Non Harry Potter Archives

The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami



 
 
Thread Tools
  #81  
Old March 15th, 2011, 3:45 pm
SSJ_Jup81's Avatar
SSJ_Jup81  Female.gif SSJ_Jup81 is offline
Secret Chocolate Keeper
 
Joined: 4752 days
Location: 東京
Age: 36
Posts: 6,232
Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hes View Post
I don't know if other foreign news agencies are doing this but the Dutch national broadcaster has decided to withdraw it's journalists out of Japan, to avoid the radiation risk.
I heard about that as well, but I'm not sure what other places have done so. I just heard that most international journalists are leaving in fear of the radiation scare.


__________________
Hufflepuff is the place to be as loyalty and fairplay are very important to me.
Sponsored Links
  #82  
Old March 15th, 2011, 5:21 pm
wandrider  Male.gif wandrider is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 3830 days
Location: Hunting Snorkack with Luna ;-)
Posts: 400
Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSJ_Jup81 View Post
Still scary that I'm about 50 miles from Fukushima and how I ended up living here in Yamagata as opposed to there, like I was originally supposed to.
Wow! Do you have good roads to leave the area if necessary? Would you be stuck on the road from evacuation traffic?

I hope your home is sealed from outside air intakes for cooling/heating & doors & windows are sealed??? You want to make sure you are NOT downwind of the failing plants. I would wear a breathing mask outside & shower well every day. Plus, wash clothes every day.

That fire would have released a lot of radiation already & when they -already admit- the rods may have melted, this means they have -already detected- the substances in the rods that escaped from the melting!!! This means the situation is much worse, because they have to cool these DAMAGED reactors & waste pools FOR MONTHS before it is truly under control. And, there is =already melting= of the rods detected.

This cooling battle will not be won for months, though I would hope it will be "under control" within days or weeks. Given that the situation has been getting worse for the last week there is no sign it is getting under control now.

Plus, those plant workers have to be getting exhausted & reaching their radiation exposure limits, so there may be real problems continuing to work on this emergency basis.

Good luck with your situation, but please be very defensive to protect yourself & family. Do you have children or teens there? If so, I would get them on the potassium iodine now.

Latest news headlines...

* Radiation leaking directly into the air from stricken Fukushima nuclear plant
* Power station has now suffered three reactor explosions and one fire
* Radiation levels up to ten times higher than normal in Tokyo
* Experts warn of cancer risk
* Stock markets in chaos as Nikkei plummets 10.5% in one day

Terrified residents began to flee Tokyo today as a nuclear power plant destroyed by the tsunami threatened to send a cloud of radioactive dust across Japan.

The Fukushima Dai-ichi plant suffered a third reactor explosion overnight and another reactor on the site caught fire.

Radiation levels are soaring across the country this afternoon as radioactive material is spewed directly into the atmosphere - while emergency crews fight to avoid a catastrophic meltdown.

Levels of radiation were ten times normal in the capital today and continue to climb, as experts warned that Japanese could face an increased cancer risk even if the crisis does not deteriorate.

The situation is worse for 140,000 people who live within an 18-mile exclusion zone around the plant. They were today ordered to stay indoors or be exposed to a dangerous level of radiation.

Plus, I just heard on the news that at the nuclear power plant site the radioactive levels are 400 times beyond the safe level... SHOCKING.

(Those high levels will only be detected during the fires & explosions, when the radiation will be released & spread at high rates.)

Click Here for Excellent Article with Lots of Pictures Graphics & Video



Last edited by wandrider; March 15th, 2011 at 7:47 pm. Reason: Add news headlines.
  #83  
Old March 15th, 2011, 6:25 pm
flimseycauldron's Avatar
flimseycauldron  Female.gif flimseycauldron is offline
Zonko's Employee
 
Joined: 3985 days
Location: New England
Posts: 3,553
Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami

Japan crisis worse than Three Mile Island, experts say


  #84  
Old March 15th, 2011, 6:31 pm
Mundungus Fletc's Avatar
Mundungus Fletc  Male.gif Mundungus Fletc is offline
Head of the Dept of
Magical Fundraising
 
Joined: 4963 days
Location: England
Posts: 4,480
Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami

Radiation levels are now reported falling since a fire was put out. The Guardian has an interesting graphic showing what the various levels mean. So far they have been nowhere near a dangerous level - the government are obviously behaving very cautiously.

There is a lot of scaremongering going on


  #85  
Old March 15th, 2011, 8:03 pm
wandrider  Male.gif wandrider is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 3830 days
Location: Hunting Snorkack with Luna ;-)
Posts: 400
Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami

SOMA, Japan — The catastrophe at Japan's stricken nuclear complex is now worse than Three Mile Island, experts said Tuesday, after the two most recent blasts exposed a spent fuel pool to outside air and might have compromised a reactor shield.

An explosion overnight at Unit 4 at the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant opened two large holes in the structure housing spent nuclear fuel rods in a large pool.

Japanese officials told the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) that the spent fuel storage area had caught fire and that radioactivity was "being released directly into the atmosphere."

After the fire was extinguished, a Japanese official said the spent fuel pool might still be boiling, though the reported levels of radiation had dropped dramatically by evening.
=====================

Notice how they always mention the radiation levels are dropping, but they don't ever mention how high the levels got to during the fires or explosions. Obviously, there is some 'cover-up' about what maximum levels have been detected already, imo.

Also, there is an admission that water levels can't be maintained due to an unknown cause for pressure leaks or cracks or maintaining cooling levels in safe zones, and I think this applies to the containment water in storage pools of spent fuel in unit 4, AND, also, the main reactor in unit 2 has pressure & coolant level issues too.

The explosion at Fukushima’s Reactor No. 2 on Tuesday morning sent radiation levels spiking, to 8,217 microsieverts an hour from 1,941 about 40 minutes earlier. Later Tuesday, Japanese nuclear officials announced much higher levels and evacuated most of the emergency workers.



Last edited by wandrider; March 15th, 2011 at 8:14 pm. Reason: Add last paragraph about worker radiation exposure.
  #86  
Old March 15th, 2011, 8:14 pm
gertiekeddle's Avatar
gertiekeddle  Female.gif gertiekeddle is offline
Eldest Gruff
 
Joined: 4562 days
Location: Öelda, et sinust ma hoolin
Age: 40
Posts: 5,233
Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami

Hes, many international media peeps also went to Osaka this morning GMT. This is about further 500 miles from Tokyo, so that they believe to be save there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mundungus Fletc
There is a lot of scaremongering going on
Wasn't the fire put out twelve hours ago? Or was there a new fire in one of the storage rooms? BBC was reporting just two hours ago that radiation grows constantly, but it makes sense if this rather fit to the time during a fire only since these storages have no radiation casings on the same safety level than the reactors have. This can become a problem due to the cooling problems there too - if the storages burn, radiation unfortunately gets free uncontrolled. Good news is that Japan only puts very small amounts into these storages (compared eg to the US who do lots more).
I'm glad if the constant growing of radiation is a false information, in any case.

I agree that the government behaves as good as possible (from what we know right now), but I assume it's not so much scaremongering than also a mix between the lack of information - respectively also the mass of events which easily get mixed up in timelines like I did above - and the few bits we know about for sure:

By now it is confirmed both by Japanese officials and Tepco as also the IAEO and other international organisations, that four reactors loose radiation, one through a leak in its casing. What we don't know is how the cooling can be re-adjusted. What's impressive is that 50 Tepco workers still try to develop ideas. I believe those at least risk their lives for days now. However, this combination of known catastrophes and unknown reasons surely invites to scaremongering or, maybe, simply valid fears that things could get worse. I agree that it doesn't help to panic before the catastrophe is there.

Taking whichever measures can be taken in a destroyed area, however, looks very reasonable to me keeping in mind that the different types of radiation strike differently as well. As that I find it logical that Tepco workers were asked to leave the control rooms a few hours ago when the levels of radiation got to high.

I like that the Guardian reminds on the normal levels of radiation we all get every day. But my problem with the Guardian graphic is that it doesn't differ between different types of radiation when it comes to the critical levels. Some plutonium sorts eg can be deathly within hours, but can be hold back with the simplest measures (like wearing clothes). There is radiation which can be prevented for a good part by taking iodium, and others which unfortunately can't be helped if you're not behind some kind of reactor casing yourself, but wouldn't kill instantly.
So even if a level of 1000 mSv does 'only' lead to sickness but not kill a human, it might as well do a few years later by cancer, mess with your genes or - in a rather good case compared to other outcomes - lead to a sickness of tiredness and depression for a lifetime. There are of course always also many humans who get radiated and live through it rather unspoiled, but imo that doesn't neglect the dangers for those who can't. Humans react differently.

Reactors aren't bombs and Japanese officials seem to have reacted very well, admitting the circumstances. Modern technology helped a lot these days. So I think we won't get a few thousand dead people tomorrow, no matter what happens. But what we already have are humans who got radiated and as such will likely suffer from follow-up deseases. We likely get more, because the radiation is still flowing.
While Tokyo levels eg are far from being dangerous, the fact that they're also already raised is, I believe, actually worrying since it tells us that the radiation already reaches a rather big area. This wouldn't hurt if it stopped right now - due to the rather minor levels - but we know that Tepco isn't yet able to stop it and as such four reactors still loose radiation.

If you take the coolings with seawater eg, this is surely a smart idea. Just it also radiates the sea since the same water gets back into the sea. It's no more prevention, it's desaster management with taking some fall-offs during a catastrophe into account which can't be changed anymore.


__________________
(Avatar by Alfonzo)


I don't want to live in a world
where the strong rules and the weak cower.
Harry Dresden.
  #87  
Old March 15th, 2011, 8:40 pm
Alastor's Avatar
Alastor  Male.gif Alastor is offline
Keeper of the Mignon Eggs
 
Joined: 5451 days
Posts: 6,446
Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami

Quote:
Originally Posted by wandrider View Post
Notice how they always mention the radiation levels are dropping, but they don't ever mention how high the levels got to during the fires or explosions. Obviously, there is some 'cover-up' about what maximum levels have been detected already, imo.
Actually the fact that radiation rose to a dangerous level this morning was reported. I seem to remember that 400 mSv/h was mentioned. But reporting the fact that there was less radiation in the afternoon plus the fact that the wind has shifted again to blow it out to sea is of course important too. Especially as reports say that Tokyo is very close to panic. Panic never helps, it makes things worse.

Anyway I do agree that it's obvious that Tepco from the beginning has been playing down the seriousness of what's going on. For example by claiming that reactors 4-6 are out of danger because they were shut down when the tsunami hit. By now we know that at least #4 is not. They should have told from the beginning that they can't guarantee that meltdowns can be avoided.

But I don't think that scaremongering makes anything better.


__________________



  #88  
Old March 15th, 2011, 8:49 pm
flimseycauldron's Avatar
flimseycauldron  Female.gif flimseycauldron is offline
Zonko's Employee
 
Joined: 3985 days
Location: New England
Posts: 3,553
Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
Anyway I do agree that it's obvious that Tepco from the beginning has been playing down the seriousness of what's going on. For example by claiming that reactors 4-6 are out of danger because they were shut down when the tsunami hit. By now we know that at least #4 is not. They should have told from the beginning that they can't guarantee that meltdowns can be avoided.

But I don't think that scaremongering makes anything better.

I think what you are saying is that there is a fine line between creating a panic and scaremongering, right?

IMHO, if they are telling people to stay inside and making their residences airtight then the radiation levels are way to high. Add the fact that they are checking food for contamination and that, too, reflects dangerous levels of radiation. I don't think that is scaremongering.


  #89  
Old March 15th, 2011, 9:04 pm
Alastor's Avatar
Alastor  Male.gif Alastor is offline
Keeper of the Mignon Eggs
 
Joined: 5451 days
Posts: 6,446
Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami

Quote:
Originally Posted by flimseycauldron View Post
I think what you are saying is that there is a fine line between creating a panic and scaremongering, right?

IMHO, if they are telling people to stay inside and making their residences airtight then the radiation levels are way to high. Add the fact that they are checking food for contamination and that, too, reflects dangerous levels of radiation. I don't think that is scaremongering.
I don't call that scaremongering either. Telling the facts, both bad and good is important. Not telling the truth is what's dangerous. Or that's how I see it.

I think the scaremongers can mostly be found on the internet and in the media. Or call it disaster pornography if you like.


__________________



  #90  
Old March 15th, 2011, 9:40 pm
gertiekeddle's Avatar
gertiekeddle  Female.gif gertiekeddle is offline
Eldest Gruff
 
Joined: 4562 days
Location: Öelda, et sinust ma hoolin
Age: 40
Posts: 5,233
Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami

I heard that there's a lack of iodine already at some places in the US(!). This I believe is a panic uncalled for. For particular since the use of iodine isn't free of danger either. Checking the news about where the atomic cloud is supposed to be aka the according websites on how the radiation level in the US is and if it raises at all, seems more logical to me.

There's indeed only small lines between telling facts - if we know what are the facts at all - , scaremongering and creating panic. Often people need to take the information they get more carefully I think, thinking in both ways. That should avoid panic by itself and keep people informed for logical decisions. Alas it doesn't always happen that way.


__________________
(Avatar by Alfonzo)


I don't want to live in a world
where the strong rules and the weak cower.
Harry Dresden.
  #91  
Old March 15th, 2011, 10:35 pm
wandrider  Male.gif wandrider is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 3830 days
Location: Hunting Snorkack with Luna ;-)
Posts: 400
Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
Actually the fact that radiation rose to a dangerous level this morning was reported. I seem to remember that 400 mSv/h was mentioned.
400 mSv/h is definitely not safe. But searching Google on that number does not bring-up many news reports. Some blog type posts pull that number, but I'm not seeing this number reported at major news websites in large numbers. Why? Cover-up? Don't want to cause panic? No radiation numbers were ever given for each of the 3 explosions in the immediate area of the plant. We have no idea how much radiation was lofted in those 3 huge explosions, or what rained down within 500-1000 meters of the blast area.

The fact the Japanese authorities are now considering, after the fire, dumping water from helicopters over Unit 4 is very possibly a cover-up too, imo, by not directly stating the fires at Unit 4 have now contaminated the immediate area, so it is unsafe for humans to be on the ground at Unit 4.

Anyway, there is some kind of a cooling leak in the containment pools for spent fuel at Unit 4. I posted before the fire occurred that a nuclear scientist was warning the spent fuel could be very dangerous if it somehow caught fire. He stated there are 100's of tons of spent fuel stored 'there', but I don't know if he is accurate about that amount. He did say these storage pools are at the reactor sites & are not safe from fire or explosion damage.

Also, the power company Tepco has been known to lie about serious nuclear plant failures or nuclear accidents in the last decade. In fact, top management resigned as a result of one of those scandals falsifying accidents or failures by cover-up & lying. And, some of these accidents were also the result of not reporting what happened at a previous major earthquake event too.

Nothing is under control & cooling properly at Units 1, 2, 3, 4. I don't trust the situation based on recent disastrous massive failures at all four reactors; plus, add-in the past Tepco nuclear scandals with cover-ups & firing top management in the last decade.


  #92  
Old March 15th, 2011, 10:36 pm
Moriath's Avatar
Moriath  Female.gif Moriath is offline
MODLY CREW
 
Joined: 4608 days
Location: Neverwhere
Posts: 7,036
Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami

I think it was Reuters which reported that Tokyo was close to mass panic, when in fact the city was tense but calm, all things considered. People living there posted annoyed comments on the Guardian live blog about the media creating panic by writing about a panic that doesn't exist. I think one commenter said that the media should be contented with the disasters that are reality. In my view this is absolutely right. Disaster pornography, indeed.


  #93  
Old March 15th, 2011, 11:21 pm
flimseycauldron's Avatar
flimseycauldron  Female.gif flimseycauldron is offline
Zonko's Employee
 
Joined: 3985 days
Location: New England
Posts: 3,553
Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami

Well I don't know if panic is the appropriate term to use but as a general over all mood but panic buying may very well be in effect. Things like batteries, food, blankets etc etc are leaving shelves faster than they can be stocked in some cases. It's unclear whether families are hoarding these items, however.


  #94  
Old March 15th, 2011, 11:28 pm
wandrider  Male.gif wandrider is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 3830 days
Location: Hunting Snorkack with Luna ;-)
Posts: 400
Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSJ_Jup81 View Post
I'm not sure what's going on now as far as the nuclear stuff, but I'll probably learn more about it by tomorrow and if there'll be evacuations and all that. Still scary that I'm about 50 miles from Fukushima ...
I am concerned for our CoS member noted above. I would be very concerned about radiation exposure if I was living where she is... just a simple change in the wind direction could be dangerous.

Though, it seems she may be ok for now with the wind direction. Just make sure you're not downwind of those nuclear plants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flimseycauldron View Post
IMHO, if they are telling people to stay inside and making their residences airtight then the radiation levels are way too high. Add the fact that they are checking food for contamination and that, too, reflects dangerous levels of radiation. I don't think that is scaremongering.
Agreed.



Last edited by wandrider; March 15th, 2011 at 11:32 pm. Reason: Add ending quote & :tu:
  #95  
Old March 16th, 2011, 12:12 am
gertiekeddle's Avatar
gertiekeddle  Female.gif gertiekeddle is offline
Eldest Gruff
 
Joined: 4562 days
Location: Öelda, et sinust ma hoolin
Age: 40
Posts: 5,233
Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moriath View Post
I think it was Reuters which reported that Tokyo was close to mass panic, when in fact the city was tense but calm, all things considered. People living there posted annoyed comments on the Guardian live blog about the media creating panic by writing about a panic that doesn't exist. I think one commenter said that the media should be contented with the disasters that are reality.
While I agree that media shouldn't support developments which aren't yet there (if ever possible), I often read Reuters since they usually stick to descriptions rather than judgement. That's what one has to know if getting news up there. The word I saw used was 'fear' in relation to citizens who emptied groceries and the according request of the government from this afternoon to trust in the food supplies and leave some for the North. Maybe it was someone else who called it panic already?

That's said when it comes to descriptions of 'calm' and 'panic' these days I'm actually not buying the one or the other. It's a city with 35 million people. Might be that things seem to be calm for some, might be that others visited signs of panic. I assume it's as hard to judge upon this for single citizens as it is for media (for particular if most of them by now left Tokyo), but most likely all forms occur. All in all it seems there's no mass panic yet. I get the a very calm impression from people online, too, but that's only some part.


__________________
(Avatar by Alfonzo)


I don't want to live in a world
where the strong rules and the weak cower.
Harry Dresden.
  #96  
Old March 16th, 2011, 12:39 am
wandrider  Male.gif wandrider is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 3830 days
Location: Hunting Snorkack with Luna ;-)
Posts: 400
Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami

Quote:
Originally Posted by gertiekeddle View Post
I heard that there's a lack of iodine already at some places in the US(!). This I believe is a panic uncalled for.
I agree with you, and I was surprised to see this report (see below). This seems a bit paranoid, as long as it does not get any worse...

The fear that a nuclear cloud could float from the shores of Japan to the shores of California has some people making a run on iodine tablets. Pharmacists across California report being flooded with requests.

State and county officials spent much of Tuesday trying to keep people calm by saying that getting the pills wasn't necessary, but then the United States surgeon general supported the idea as a worthy "precaution."

U.S. Surgeon General Regina Benjamin is in the Bay Area touring a peninsula hospital. NBC Bay Area reporter Damian Trujillo asked her about the run on tablets and Dr. Benjamin said although she wasn't aware of people stocking up, she did not think that would be an overreaction. She said it was right to be prepared.

Click Here Article: Surgeon-General-Buying-Iodine-Appropriate

I would be very concerned if I lived within 100 kilometers or 50 miles of those failing nuclear plants.

Red Alert Workers (Temporarily) Abandon Nuclear Plant, Attention Wednesday in Japan...

FUKUSHIMA, Japan – Japan ordered emergency workers to withdraw from its stricken nuclear power complex Wednesday amid a surge in radiation, temporarily suspending efforts to cool overheating reactors.

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said the workers, who were dousing the reactors with seawater in a frantic effort to stabilize their temperatures, had no choice except to withdraw.

"The workers cannot carry out even minimal work at the plant now," Edano said. "Because of the radiation risk we are on standby."

Obviously, this is a very dangerous situation risking huge releases of dangerous levels of radiation if fires keep burning. This is a Red Alert. I would leave that area & get at least 400-600 kilometers away if fires keep burning or workers don't return.



Last edited by wandrider; March 16th, 2011 at 6:50 pm. Reason: Add Red Alert at End
  #97  
Old March 16th, 2011, 10:34 am
Hes's Avatar
Hes  Female.gif Hes is offline
Embroidered by imaginatio
 
Joined: 4748 days
Location: One second out of sync
Age: 36
Posts: 5,979
Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami

Quote:
Originally Posted by gertiekeddle View Post
I heard that there's a lack of iodine already at some places in the US(!). This I believe is a panic uncalled for. For particular since the use of iodine isn't free of danger either. Checking the news about where the atomic cloud is supposed to be aka the according websites on how the radiation level in the US is and if it raises at all, seems more logical to me.

There's indeed only small lines between telling facts - if we know what are the facts at all - , scaremongering and creating panic. Often people need to take the information they get more carefully I think, thinking in both ways. That should avoid panic by itself and keep people informed for logical decisions. Alas it doesn't always happen that way.
Yeah here there was a press release to tell people not to take iodine pills...geography lessons aren't what they used to be but really people...


__________________


"I'm a leaf on the wind...watch how I soar."

"Chickens come home to roost."

"It's okay...I-I'm a leaf on the wind."


Loveliest Care Bear. Expert Sig Changer
  #98  
Old March 16th, 2011, 10:45 am
gertiekeddle's Avatar
gertiekeddle  Female.gif gertiekeddle is offline
Eldest Gruff
 
Joined: 4562 days
Location: Öelda, et sinust ma hoolin
Age: 40
Posts: 5,233
Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami

Actually I think it's valid to be worried in the US - it's not likely, but possible that the cloud reaches the Pacific Coast; there's no mountain in between where radiation could rain down, although of course the sea alone is a huge border. Just right now it doesn't seem to be helpful to take not even healthy measures against a danger, which is currently not present. I'd be more worried if I lived +- 200-300 miles around Fukushima, where the contamination through radiation currently seems to grow (depending on wind, though).


__________________
(Avatar by Alfonzo)


I don't want to live in a world
where the strong rules and the weak cower.
Harry Dresden.
  #99  
Old March 16th, 2011, 10:48 am
dobbydear15  Female.gif dobbydear15 is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 2531 days
Location: Wisconsin
Age: 29
Posts: 114
Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami

What do we think the effects would be in the U.S. if the cloud does reach the Pacific Coast?


__________________


From beginning to end, I shall say it again. Twas nice to be amongst the most dearest of friends.-Brynn Ashleigh '11
  #100  
Old March 16th, 2011, 10:49 am
Hes's Avatar
Hes  Female.gif Hes is offline
Embroidered by imaginatio
 
Joined: 4748 days
Location: One second out of sync
Age: 36
Posts: 5,979
Re: The Japan Earthquake and Tsunami

I've to agree that in the US the concerns may be valid, but not here, that cloud won't reach this place unless they all blow (at least I presume that, I've no real clue)


__________________


"I'm a leaf on the wind...watch how I soar."

"Chickens come home to roost."

"It's okay...I-I'm a leaf on the wind."


Loveliest Care Bear. Expert Sig Changer
 
Go Back  Chamber of Secrets > Forum Archives > Non Harry Potter Archives

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:49 am.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original content is Copyright © MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright © its respective owners.