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Deportation of Roma from France



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 23rd, 2010, 10:06 pm
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Deportation of Roma from France

The recent deportation of Roma gypsies from France has raised concerns amongst many global organisations including the UN about the way in which France is developing its immigration policy. Some have said it is xenophobic and racist, whilst others have praised the moves citing problems with the conditions of gypsy camps as well as illegal activity being undertaken there.

No government can tackle immigration issues without touching on some controversy. It then becomes a matter of which side is telling the whole truth and a media battle gets underway amongst the opposing sides for the hearts and minds of the wider populace.

BBC News source on the issue

With that in mind, the follow questions aim to stimulate a debate on whether this policy of the French government is the correct one:

1. Do you believe the deportation of Roma gypsies is the correct one or not?

2. What methods could the French government have employed as a viable alternative to deportation?

3. Is this policy of deportation xenophobic and racist to you, or is it a humanitarian problem that can only be solved by sending the Roma gypies back to Romania?

4. What is your impression of the Roma gypsy camps that have been set up?

5. Why do you believe the gypsies moved to France in the first place?

6. With greater integration of European nations, is it fair to say that France is neglecting its duty as a major power to improve conditions for ethic minorities that settle there? Or is it too much effort for little or no reward?

7. Do you have any personal experience of being an immigrant? How were you or your family treated?


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  #2  
Old August 24th, 2010, 6:50 am
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Re: Deportation of Roma from France

3. Is this policy of deportation xenophobic and racist to you, or is it a humanitarian problem that can only be solved by sending the Roma gypies back to Romania?

I'm afraid I'm not well acquainted with the developments of this issue, nor with France's general immigration policy, but I know how Roma people live in their native Bulgaria and Romania, and I can say fairly confidently that sending them back to Romania will not improve their condition at all, so I if the motivation behind it is to make life better for these people, I find it difficult to believe it. They emigrated in the first place because life is near impossible for them in their home countries, sending them back does nothing for the Roma people.

My impression is that it's not just France, nobody wants to deal with the issue of the Roma minority in the poorer European states, and certainly not those states themselves (well, not Bulgaria in any case).

ETA: I just read this from the link supplied: "The French government says it is a "decent and humane" policy of removing people from deplorable conditions." Well, I don't believe this. Firstly, how is it decent and humane to merely tell them to go and stop there? Secondly, sending them back means sending them to very similar deplorable conditions. To be honest, it just sounds like an excuse to me. Because merely sending them back solves the problem for France but doesn't go one inch into solving it for the Roma people.



Last edited by Yoana; August 24th, 2010 at 6:55 am.
  #3  
Old August 24th, 2010, 7:36 am
FleurduJardin  Female.gif FleurduJardin is offline
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Re: Deportation of Roma from France

I'd just like to make a few comments.

* To my knowledge, Denmark has also expelled its Roma population, why single out France in this?

* They are sent back home with € 300 and a free plane ticket. Hardly a "Gestapo-like deportation" as some news media have called it.

* Crime rate among young Roma in France has jumped 130% in two years. A friend of mine has been mugged by three Roma boys at an ATM machine in Paris. The cops told him that it was the 50th such mugging in that neighborhood in two weeks, it's become so routine that the bank told him "Oh, we're lucky, you're the first mugging [for this particular bank] in three weeks".

It seems those teens are very well-organized. Their parents send them out in the morning, and they have to come back with money or valuables, that get sent back to Romania. The boys work the streets and the ATM machines, the girls work the metro.

* So, you see, for France it is a security measure. The French people are in general (those I'm in contact with anyway) relieved that the Government is finally doing something, they've been a problem for years.

* It's a lot less racist, IMO, than the US deporting illegal immigrants, or the recent Arizona law about police stopping people who look like they may be illegal immigrants. The problem with the Roma is that, as citizens of the European Union, they can move legally to any EU country.

* I agree with Yoana when she says:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoana
My impression is that it's not just France, nobody wants to deal with the issue of the Roma minority in the poorer European states, and certainly not those states themselves (well, not Bulgaria in any case).
This is a European problem that has to be dealt with by the whole of Europe. France is hardly the only country involved. I'm not sure of the extent of the problem in other European countries, nor am I familiar with the Danish expulsion of Roma (though I could find that article again if need be, I just don't have it at hand right now) - I'm not quite sure why France has been singled out, except for the fact that everything President Sarkozy does is controversial these days.

To answer some of Morgoth's original questions - No, I don't think it's racist or xenophobic. France is a multi-ethnic, multi-cultural society. Illegal immigrants or foreign criminal elements are deported just the same way, whatever their race or color, whereas legal residents and law-abiding citizens are treated equally.

Besides, France has its own "native" gypsy ethnic minority, who've been there for centuries and are a well-integrated part of the general population. There is no discrimination against them that I know of. On the contrary, their yearly festivals are very popular and a big tourist attraction. But then they don't go around stealing and mugging, and they speak French (which most of the Romanian of Bulgarian Roma don't - those who mugged my friend didn't.)

And yes, I'm an immigrant myself, as is my whole family. We're Vietnamese. After the Fall of Saigon and the mass exodus (remember the boat people?), most of my family became US citizens, except for one of my brothers who became a Swiss citizen, and I myself who became a French citizen - and we have some Belgian and Canadian cousins.

We've generally been well-received in our host countries, though there has been some acceptance and integration problems, but those are not the subject of this thread.

Last but not least, my answer to the first question: Yes, I think the policy is correct. Considering France's other social and economic problems, I don't see what else we can do at the national level.

But, as Yoana pointed out, this is a Europe-wide problem, which should be dealt with at the supranational European level.



Last edited by FleurduJardin; August 26th, 2010 at 8:22 pm. Reason: Correct bad mistake about "racism"
  #4  
Old August 24th, 2010, 8:05 am
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Re: Deportation of Roma from France

Quote:
Originally Posted by FleurduJardin View Post
* To my knowledge, Denmark has also expelled its Roma population, why single out France in this?
If I'm not mistaken, Finland did too, several years ago, though on a smaller scale. I remember because those Roma were all Bulgarian citizens.

Quote:
This is a European problem that has to be dealt with by the whole of Europe. France is hardly the only country involved.
It is. I even read in a Bulgarian newspaper today an analysis which said that the Roma issue has consistently been pushed aside in favour of more pressing problems - most recently the Greek financial trouble. I suppose it's been ignored by everyone for far too long. These people's native countries have done virtually nothing for integrating them or even for just improving their lives (the facts there are horrifying, by the way - the living conditions of many Roma people in their home countries are comparable to those in the poorest African states), and after those countries' EU accession, the problem has spread all over Europe. To be honest though, I really couldn't say how much responsibility the EU has in addressing this issue.

I can understand France's actions from the point of view of necessity and legality - there's legal basis for the expulsion and it does seem necessary for France to deal with the illegal camps. But this would do nothing for the Roma people, unfortunately. They'd just be pushed back in their original situation which made them migrate in the first place. I think it's shameful that in the 21st century some of the most developed, richest countries in the world accommodate people who live in constant and hopeless poverty, a considerable part of them actually starving, and have no sustainable strategy for dealing with this humanitarian problem under its own roof.


  #5  
Old August 24th, 2010, 3:11 pm
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Re: Deportation of Roma from France

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoana View Post
If I'm not mistaken, Finland did too, several years ago, though on a smaller scale. I remember because those Roma were all Bulgarian citizens.
I think Finland has sent home some of them on a few occasions. I just don't remember when and how many. No wholesale deportation, though. Anyway those tent and trailer camps are still there and the Audi or BMW driving 'pimps' bringing them to and fro their begging stations are still there too.

I for one think that the EU should have put pressure on those countries to solve their problems before accepting them as members. Now it's a bit late as they have much less incentive when the membership is already achieved. But there is of course also the question of how much those countries can do in the present economical situation. Not much, I'm afraid.


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Old August 24th, 2010, 6:37 pm
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Re: Deportation of Roma from France

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoana View Post
But this would do nothing for the Roma people, unfortunately. They'd just be pushed back in their original situation which made them migrate in the first place. I think it's shameful that in the 21st century some of the most developed, richest countries in the world accommodate people who live in constant and hopeless poverty, a considerable part of them actually starving, and have no sustainable strategy for dealing with this humanitarian problem under its own roof.
What exactly are the Roma doing to improve their own situation, besides stealing and begging I mean.... And why is everyone responsible for this problem but not the Roma???


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  #7  
Old August 24th, 2010, 11:25 pm
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Re: Deportation of Roma from France

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
I for one think that the EU should have put pressure on those countries to solve their problems before accepting them as members. Now it's a bit late as they have much less incentive when the membership is already achieved.
Very right. IMO, the EU expanded too much, too fast. Jumping from 15 to 25 members was too much of a bite to swallow at one go, and then getting in a couple more just a few years later made it even harder to manage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siriusandme View Post
What exactly are the Roma doing to improve their own situation, besides stealing and begging I mean.... And why is everyone responsible for this problem but not the Roma???
Good question.

1. Do you believe the deportation of Roma gypsies is the correct one or not?
Yes I do.

2. What methods could the French government have employed as a viable alternative to deportation?
Not many alternatives giving the current economic situation, plus the other minorities problems like the Muslims (think Burqa ban) and the unemployment figures. I mean, any host country would first have to teach the immigrants the language before integrating them in the work force. Right now, no one has that much money and time to spare, even rich countries.

3. Is this policy of deportation xenophobic and racist to you, or is it a humanitarian problem that can only be solved by sending the Roma gypies back to Romania?
No it's not xenophobic or racist as far as I can see. If the French were that xenophobic and racist, they wouldn't have all those Black Africans, North Africans, Asians, Indians, etc. around.

The humanitarian problem may not be solved that way, but it's really the problem of the home country, not the one of the country of refuge. Those Roma are already a bit richer when they go back than when they left. Home countries should take it from there.

4. What is your impression of the Roma gypsy camps that have been set up?
They remind me a lot of the shanty towns around Paris in the early 60's after the Algerian War, when all those North-Africans came to France - but those were a hard-working bunch and they integrated quickly. Didn't go around thieving and making trouble. The "Muslim problem" only appeared a generation or two later.

5. Why do you believe the gypsies moved to France in the first place?
France and other rich countries - richer than where they came from at least. In search of a better life, I'd think. More opportunities. To take Fleur's friend's example, I doubt that they could get as much cash "working" the ATMs in Bucarest or Sofia as they do in Paris or London, Copenhagen or Helsinki.

6. With greater integration of European nations, is it fair to say that France is neglecting its duty as a major power to improve conditions for ethic minorities that settle there? Or is it too much effort for little or no reward?
No, I don't think so. France is doing a lot to improve conditions of ethnic minorities - see how some of them abuse the Social Security system and get allowances for four wives and a dozen kids. That may be considered cheating and stealing, but not outright stealing like the Roma. To turn the question around, what are the Roma doing to get accepted, employed, and improve their own conditions? No country can afford to go around distributing money to people who don't work, take money dishonestly, and send that money back out of the host country. That would be economic suicide. And can you imagine the local, legal, law-abiding people's reaction to such a policy? When French people can't get an honest job and have trouble getting unemployment benefits, to see money go to a bunch of foreign troublemakers?

7. Do you have any personal experience of being an immigrant? How were you or your family treated?

Yes. Like Fleur, I'm Vietnamese, got to the US from France where I was a student after my family got here from Vietnam after South Vietnam fell to the Communists. We were treated mostly with kindness and help, but then we all spoke English and all found jobs quickly. People less educated may have found it more difficult - I've heard stories, but don't want to go off-topic.

Let's say that we were in no way like the Roma, so we certainly didn't have the kind of experience they're having.


  #8  
Old August 25th, 2010, 6:44 am
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Re: Deportation of Roma from France

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siriusandme View Post
What exactly are the Roma doing to improve their own situation, besides stealing and begging I mean.... And why is everyone responsible for this problem but not the Roma???
Well they have been ostracized from society when the Socialist state took away their means of feeding themselves (mainly craftsmanship) and then the new rule just forgot about them completely - there were virtually no attempts at integration at all (and since we're talking about a different culture, not just ethnicity, it's not as simple as it looks.) And through continuous isolation by now they live in ghettos, don't send their children to school because nobody send them to school (plus schools are pretty much segregated which is another factor contributing to their isolation), and they live in a vicious circle which they cannot break themselves, without help. The majority are uneducated - they can't be expected to cope with life as well as educated, well-off people. It's not a simple matter of "I can, so they should be able to, too." The situations are vastly different.



Last edited by Yoana; August 25th, 2010 at 6:47 am.
  #9  
Old August 25th, 2010, 7:29 am
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Re: Deportation of Roma from France

1. Do you believe the deportation of Roma gypsies is the correct one or not?

No. It reminds me that the Roma have not had it easy for a long time--I haven't actually heard of positive conditions for them at all.

2. What methods could the French government have employed as a viable alternative to deportation?

Education? I don't know. Though I don't believe that deportation is the right thing to do, I'm still unsure of what should be done.

3. Is this policy of deportation xenophobic and racist to you, or is it a humanitarian problem that can only be solved by sending the Roma gypies back to Romania?

The former. Yoana has explained that it isn't humane to send them back--and they may just end up back in France. It's not a humanitarian problem in my eyes.

6. With greater integration of European nations, is it fair to say that France is neglecting its duty as a major power to improve conditions for ethic minorities that settle there? Or is it too much effort for little or no reward?

There might be something to the idea that France is doing too little for minorities. What with the proposed burqa ban and this mass deportation, it seems that there is a problem for France with immigrants.


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  #10  
Old August 25th, 2010, 7:34 am
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Re: Deportation of Roma from France

Quote:
Originally Posted by hemhem20X6 View Post
There might be something to the idea that France is doing too little for minorities. What with the proposed burqa ban and this mass deportation, it seems that there is a problem for France with immigrants.
However, it's important to note that those Roma people are not France's minority - they are Romanian and Bulgarian citizens. In my opinion, the responsibility for this particular minority lies with those countries, not France. What I objected to was the excuse used - I don't believe it's humane to send them back, nor do I believe it's the actual reason.


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Old August 25th, 2010, 9:39 am
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Re: Deportation of Roma from France

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoana View Post
Well they have been ostracized from society when the Socialist state took away their means of feeding themselves (mainly craftsmanship) and then the new rule just forgot about them completely - there were virtually no attempts at integration at all (and since we're talking about a different culture, not just ethnicity, it's not as simple as it looks.) And through continuous isolation by now they live in ghettos, don't send their children to school because nobody send them to school (plus schools are pretty much segregated which is another factor contributing to their isolation), and they live in a vicious circle which they cannot break themselves, without help. The majority are uneducated - they can't be expected to cope with life as well as educated, well-off people. It's not a simple matter of "I can, so they should be able to, too." The situations are vastly different.
That all sounds extremely awfull and so forth and so on, but.... There are plenty of cultures on this whole wide world who faced the same issues who managed to rise above it. My point is that yes you are right, the Roma have been and are ill treated in society, but they are partly to blame for this. Currently at least. The could send their children, but don't want to (culture thing), the could get jobs, perhaps not the best, but don't. Up untill a certain point they choose to live the life they live. So I don't see why everyone else is to blame for their problems, but not the Roma themselves..


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  #12  
Old August 25th, 2010, 9:52 am
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Re: Deportation of Roma from France

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siriusandme View Post
The could send their children, but don't want to (culture thing), the could get jobs, perhaps not the best, but don't. Up untill a certain point they choose to live the life they live. So I don't see why everyone else is to blame for their problems, but not the Roma themselves..
It' not a culture thing not sending your children to school. It's that uneducated people usually do not know the value of education. That's why I said it was a vicious circle.

Many Roma people here, in my country, don't even steal and beg for themselves - they are rounded up and sent to do it by rich people, not necessarily of Roma descent. It's organized crime in which many, many Roma people are exploited. And I fully believe that if they were educated and therefore had more opportunities to get jobs which would actually take them out of the ghetto where the exploiters recruit them, this would go a long way into helping the situation. In my opinion, focusing on making Roma children go and remain in school is crucial. It should start with shutting down ghetto schools and sending them to regular schools with ethnic Bulgarian children. It can all start to get better from there.

In conclusion, I firmly disagree with the simplistic view that it's just a matter of a bunch of people who won't work and prefer to steal instead. While there certainly are such cases, and they're not few, it's all a part of a much bigger and complex issue of a country which has completely ignored this minority for 20 years now, and a majority which hates it with a passion (I can guarantee this is true.) It's not easy picking yourself up from a vicious circle of illiteracy and crime coupled with indifference and hate from your fellow citizens who care more about stray dogs than about you. Roma people are subjects of horrible open racism in Bulgaria, on top of all.


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Old August 25th, 2010, 3:02 pm
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Re: Deportation of Roma from France

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoana View Post
It' not a culture thing not sending your children to school. It's that uneducated people usually do not know the value of education. That's why I said it was a vicious circle.

Many Roma people here, in my country, don't even steal and beg for themselves - they are rounded up and sent to do it by rich people, not necessarily of Roma descent. It's organized crime in which many, many Roma people are exploited. And I fully believe that if they were educated and therefore had more opportunities to get jobs which would actually take them out of the ghetto where the exploiters recruit them, this would go a long way into helping the situation. In my opinion, focusing on making Roma children go and remain in school is crucial. It should start with shutting down ghetto schools and sending them to regular schools with ethnic Bulgarian children. It can all start to get better from there.

In conclusion, I firmly disagree with the simplistic view that it's just a matter of a bunch of people who won't work and prefer to steal instead. While there certainly are such cases, and they're not few, it's all a part of a much bigger and complex issue of a country which has completely ignored this minority for 20 years now, and a majority which hates it with a passion (I can guarantee this is true.) It's not easy picking yourself up from a vicious circle of illiteracy and crime coupled with indifference and hate from your fellow citizens who care more about stray dogs than about you. Roma people are subjects of horrible open racism in Bulgaria, on top of all.
Yoana, several times you've commented on the racism and bigotry within your country, including now. I saw some of it in my ex eastern European in laws. Are you sure education within Bulgaria, where majority kids can beat them up, probably with impunity, and where teachers and administrators could follow it with soft predjudice, do these kids really have any chance in your country. It reminds me of of a black in the American south circa 1900, only much worse.

All the Best,

Kerney


  #14  
Old August 25th, 2010, 3:09 pm
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Re: Deportation of Roma from France

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Originally Posted by Lunatic View Post
Yoana, several times you've commented on the racism and bigotry within your country, including now. I saw some of it in my ex eastern European in laws. Are you sure education within Bulgaria, where majority kids can beat them up, probably with impunity, and where teachers and administrators could follow it with soft predjudice, do these kids really have any chance in your country. It reminds me of of a black in the American south circa 1900, only much worse.

All the Best,

Kerney
I don't know about much worse than the American south 1900s. That strikes me as a bit extreme.

As for the rest, I just have no other ideas apart from educating the Roma children. I sincerely hope the relevant authorities do or come up with them soon.


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Old August 25th, 2010, 4:05 pm
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Re: Deportation of Roma from France

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoana View Post
I don't know about much worse than the American south 1900s. That strikes me as a bit extreme.

As for the rest, I just have no other ideas apart from educating the Roma children. I sincerely hope the relevant authorities do or come up with them soon.
Funny, I thought from what you described and what I saw with my ex in laws, the south was loving kindness in comparision. I mention this not to argue, but just a comment about how our frames of reference are different.

You hit something important on the second part of this. You mention relevant authorities and from what you describe they seem to be part of the problem rather then the solution. What about NGO's? I'm sure you could get rich Americans and Western Europeans to fund schools, staff it with fair minded Bulgarians and any educated Roma.

Would that work?

All the Best,

Kerney


  #16  
Old August 26th, 2010, 12:14 am
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Re: Deportation of Roma from France

1. Do you believe the deportation of Roma gypsies is the correct one or not?
I hate to be so black and white because I know it's a hot-button issue, but I think in this case it's definitely a bad decision. The French government is simply trying to wash its hands of a problem it helped create. You can't ignore a problem for years and years, even if it wasn't yours to begin with, and expect not to be somewhat responsible for it later.

2. What methods could the French government have employed as a viable alternative to deportation?
That is hard to say, and admittedly, it doesn't seem right to be opposed to deportation without having any other ideas to offer, but obviously there is a deep-seeded hatred of Roma, and that is not a good motivation for anything. If we get rid of the prejudice, perhaps, everything else will follow.

3. Is this policy of deportation xenophobic and racist to you, or is it a humanitarian problem that can only be solved by sending the Roma gypies back to Romania?
Honestly, I doubt Roma would be much better off in Romania or Bulgaria than they are in France, Italy or the other places they group, and in fact, I imagine their qualities of life are slightly better. The differences being that there is a higher standard of living in France, so the disparity between the poor and the rich is even greater. But they'd likely be just as poor in the home countries. It'd be silly to say there aren't a lot of people who hate Roma and who are motivated by their xenophobic attitudes. For some reason, it's socially acceptable to dislike Roma for who they are.

4. What is your impression of the Roma gypsy camps that have been set up?
They seem to be a pretty big problem and just help encourage poverty, stealing and everything else that comes with it.

5. Why do you believe the gypsies moved to France in the first place?
I have no idea really. This was happening long before the European Union.

6. With greater integration of European nations, is it fair to say that France is neglecting its duty as a major power to improve conditions for ethic minorities that settle there? Or is it too much effort for little or no reward?
It definitely seems like they're taking the easy way out. Send them "home" with 300 Euro and everyone is happy. They'll likely use the 300 Euro to buy a train ticket right back.

7. Do you have any personal experience of being an immigrant? How were you or your family treated?
Not as an immigrant, but I have met some Roma. The Roma I met in Lithuania were more integrated than any I have seen in Western Europe, but they still lived in the outskirts of town and it was difficult for them to get jobs because they were always perceived as thieves. I never met any personally in Italy, but I could see they were treated like trash there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FleurduJardin View Post
* It's not any more racist, IMO, than the US deporting illegal immigrants, or the recent Arizona law about police stopping people who look like they may be illegal immigrants. The problem with the Roma is that, as citizens of the European Union, they can move legally to any EU country.
It's ironic to me those two sentences are right next to each other. I'm not defending the Arizona law as I think it's pretty ridiculous, but Roma are not illegal immigrants in France. While there might be some crossover in the motivations behind both attempts at control, ultimately, illegal immigrants don't have a legal right to live in the US. Roma do have a legal right to live in France, or are they somehow different than other European Union citizens?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoana View Post
In conclusion, I firmly disagree with the simplistic view that it's just a matter of a bunch of people who won't work and prefer to steal instead. While there certainly are such cases, and they're not few, it's all a part of a much bigger and complex issue of a country which has completely ignored this minority for 20 years now, and a majority which hates it with a passion (I can guarantee this is true.) It's not easy picking yourself up from a vicious circle of illiteracy and crime coupled with indifference and hate from your fellow citizens who care more about stray dogs than about you. Roma people are subjects of horrible open racism in Bulgaria, on top of all.
I think this is a pretty clear summary of my own thoughts. Perhaps this is a bit naive, but I would like to believe education, both to eradicate illiteracy among Roma and open racism among everyone else, is the key to this problem. I don't deny there is a pretty hefty problem here, but I think it's more to do with xenophobia and racism than anything Roma people have done.


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Old August 26th, 2010, 12:28 am
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Re: Deportation of Roma from France

Quote:
Originally Posted by hemhem20X6 View Post
2. What methods could the French government have employed as a viable alternative to deportation?

Education? I don't know. Though I don't believe that deportation is the right thing to do, I'm still unsure of what should be done.
The problem is that France already has a lot of unemployed people. Wouldn't it be easier to educate/train french citizents that actually speak french? Besides, they are Romanian/Bulgarian citizents, so they're their responsability.

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Originally Posted by Lunatic View Post
You hit something important on the second part of this. You mention relevant authorities and from what you describe they seem to be part of the problem rather then the solution. What about NGO's? I'm sure you could get rich Americans and Western Europeans to fund schools, staff it with fair minded Bulgarians and any educated Roma.

Would that work?

All the Best,

Kerney
I doubt it. It's hard to get money these days. Besides we are talking about a lot of people here. There are officialy 370K roma (is it said roma if it's plural?) in Bulgaria and 530K in Romania. Those numbers are probably higher, many of them don't proclaim themself as roma because of discrimination. Anything you do would be expensive, you would have to wait a long while to see the effects and the effects would be relatively small.

1. Do you believe the deportation of Roma gypsies is the correct one or not?

I think it's the best choice they have from many views. They have "a problem" less, and the french goverment is gaining points. I wouldn't phrase it as the right solution.

3. Is this policy of deportation xenophobic and racist to you, or is it a humanitarian problem that can only be solved by sending the Roma gypies back to Romania?

I don't see it as racist or anything, but I also don't see it as a solution. I see it more as handing the problem back to Romania/Bulgaria.

4. What is your impression of the Roma gypsy camps that have been set up?

Well... let me put it this way: I'd rather go on a trip with Bear Grylls than live there.

5. Why do you believe the gypsies moved to France in the first place?

I guess they thought they'd have it better there. The conditions in their home contries are far from pleasant.

6. With greater integration of European nations, is it fair to say that France is neglecting its duty as a major power to improve conditions for ethic minorities that settle there? Or is it too much effort for little or no reward?

No, I don't think it's fair, at least not on this occasion. People that are going to France (and other contries) are (supposably) going there to work. If you're not going there to work, you can't expect the host country to support you, even if we are talking about major powers.


  #18  
Old August 26th, 2010, 5:44 am
Midnightsfire  Undisclosed.gif Midnightsfire is offline
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Re: Deportation of Roma from France

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Originally Posted by Rastaban43 View Post
Roma do have a legal right to live in France, or are they somehow different than other European Union citizens?
And if there aren't any jobs, how long is a foreign government supposed to support them?


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  #19  
Old August 26th, 2010, 8:07 am
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Rastaban43  Male.gif Rastaban43 is offline
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Re: Deportation of Roma from France

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Originally Posted by Midnightsfire View Post
And if there aren't any jobs, how long is a foreign government supposed to support them?
I'm not saying there isn't a problem, but using the recent Arizona Immigration law as a comparison "not any more racist" than what the French are doing is rhetorically unsound.


  #20  
Old August 26th, 2010, 9:35 am
Kristian  Male.gif Kristian is offline
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Re: Deportation of Roma from France

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Originally Posted by Rastaban43 View Post
I'm not saying there isn't a problem, but using the recent Arizona Immigration law as a comparison "not any more racist" than what the French are doing is rhetorically unsound.
It's true that the Roma have a right to live in France. It's also true that they can stay in France for 3 months, after that you have to prove that you can support yourself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastaban43 View Post
I hate to be so black and white because I know it's a hot-button issue, but I think in this case it's definitely a bad decision. The French government is simply trying to wash its hands of a problem it helped create. You can't ignore a problem for years and years, even if it wasn't yours to begin with, and expect not to be somewhat responsible for it later.
Did they really help create the problem though? Let's not forget that Bulgaria and Romania have joined the EU in 2007, so it's not been that long. And from what I've heard the french goverment did things like this before, this time it's just more public.


 
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