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  #1  
Old August 21st, 2010, 5:05 am
silmarilien  Female.gif silmarilien is offline
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Immigration and immigrants

Hello,

This is a thread to discuss the different causes and consecuences resulting from immigration.

Immigration is the introduction of new people to a determined social group or habitat. There are generally two types of causes for immigration, Push and Pull ones. (You can see them in the spoiler tag, used to minimize length)

Spoiler: show
Push Factors
Not enough jobs
Few opportunities
Primitive conditions
Desertification
Famine or drought
Political fear or persecution
Poor medical care
Loss of wealth
Natural disasters
Death threats
Lack of political or religious freedom
Pollution
Poor housing
Landlord/tenant issues
Bullying
Discrimination
Poor chances of marrying
Pull Factors
Job opportunities
Better living conditions
Political and/or religious freedom
Enjoyment
Education
Better medical care
Attractive climates
Security
Family links
Industry
Better chances of marrying
*I used Wikipedia as a source because of the easy concepts .


Possible topics are:


Immigration policies in your country: Open (pro immigrants) Closed (against) Mixed (There's a variety of laws supporting either case).

Do you believe immigrants have made living easier or more difficult in your country? Why?

Are you/is anyone in your family an immigrant? Can you tell your side of the story?

Do you want to leave your country (permanently-for a while)? What are your reasons for it?

Is there any particular issue regarding immigration that you'd like to share or discuss? Please feel free.


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  #2  
Old August 21st, 2010, 3:00 pm
lightreading  Female.gif lightreading is offline
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Re: Immigration and immigrants

Do you believe immigrants have made living easier or more difficult in your country? Why?
I'm not really sure. Personally I'm pro-immigrant (after all, my parents are immigrants) but I know other people in the US have different opinions.

Are you/is anyone in your family an immigrant? Can you tell your side of the story?
My parents are immigrants. I don't know what you mean by 'my side of the story'--I was raised in the US, my parents speak English and so do I...... I am an American.

Do you want to leave your country (permanently-for a while)? What are your reasons for it?
Eventually I want to travel to India (my father's home) and stay with his family for a while. I really love it there and I wish when I was younger my parents had the money for us to go there more often.

Is there any particular issue regarding immigration that you'd like to share or discuss? Please feel free.
No, not really.


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  #3  
Old August 21st, 2010, 4:14 pm
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Re: Immigration and immigrants

Do you believe immigrants have made living easier or more difficult in your country? Why?

We have relatively few immigrants so immigration hasn't had much of an impact.

Are you/is anyone in your family an immigrant? Can you tell your side of the story?

No, but a lot of my friends are (they now live in other countries). I live in a poor country and people tend to flee it. It's hard to see your closest friends go away and then only see them once a year, if that often. I imagine it must be even more difficult when families split up.

Do you want to leave your country (permanently-for a while)? What are your reasons for it?

Oh yes. My reasons - almost everything here runs counter to my beliefs. I don't feel at home here at all. The other major reason is that this country doesn't offer much for people who want to develop their skills and broaden their horizons. It's just a really bad place to work in, an extremely bad place. And my third reason is that I want to travel, to move, to live in other cultures.


  #4  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 4:56 am
silmarilien  Female.gif silmarilien is offline
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Re: Immigration and immigrants

Quote:
I don't know what you mean by 'my side of the story'-
Some people, like you with parents who migrated, have experienced the issue more closely than others and can provide that side of the story, as you put it people have different opinions regarding this matter. For instance, some people may argue that immigrants take up jobs for locals (I know Aruba has a policy that hires locals first and only under special circumstances foreigners, because it's such a small island) and others argue that immigrants stimulate economies.

There are other issues besides the financial ones that can be argued, such as safety (refugees), quality of life (in Venezuela immigrants contributed positively in the past to our quality of life with their knowledge), etc.

@Yoana I completely understand, I am trapped in such a country myself, however I fear terribly the rejection I may experience in another country now, if I were to be an immigrant (however legal, as I do not wish to leave here illegally at all!) because the financial strains that affect us are not directly related to one country, but rather globalization means that most economies are affected at the same time. (Nevertheless, the reasons behind my wish to leave are far more complicated than financial ones, I just fear I may be seen as burden in a different country, though I am completely willing to embrace the new culture in full)

I know countries such as Canada and Australia have open immigration policies, because agents visit Venezuela all the time offering programs to live and work there. I am interested in participating in one and I'm currently saving for it... I wonder if there are people in the forum with similar experiences.


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  #5  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 5:08 am
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Re: Immigration and immigrants

Immigration policies in your country: Open (pro immigrants) Closed (against) Mixed (There's a variety of laws supporting either case).
Mexico has a history of being very open to immigrants. There are entire communities of people from Greece, China, Japan, Germany, Spain, Ireland, Italy, etc. We're all about taking in refugees and stuff, but Mexico isn't exactly a rich country where a lot of people want to stay if they have a choice. On the other hand, there's the centuries-old problem of immigration from Mexico to the US. I really hate what was done in Arizona, but I guess it's their right to ward off outsiders if they feel like they have to.

Do you believe immigrants have made living easier or more difficult in your country? Why?
I don't understand this question. Obviously having more people coming into a country is a good thing, because the labor force grows and more money is made. Having a lot of people leave a country, like what happens here, is really bad because entire villages are left without men or women.

Are you/is anyone in your family an immigrant? Can you tell your side of the story?
Well, my family lived in the US for a few years when I was little. We weren't typical immigrants, because we were there temporarily (my dad was doing his PhD), but we were still the only non-white family in the whole neighborhood we lived in. I don't remember much, but my mom often talks about how her American coworkers asked if people in Mexico really lived in shacks by the Rio Grande. My mom was like "oh sure, and we eat tacos everyday while riding donkeys". Her coworkers believed her. In my opinion, this comes to show that there is a lot of ignorance regarding other cultures in many parts of the US. That attitude starts at home.

Do you want to leave your country (permanently-for a while)? What are your reasons for it?
I intend to join my country's foreign service, so yes, it would be my job to leave my country on a regular basis. I go to college for International Relations, so I also plan on studying abroad at some point.


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Last edited by FGG; August 22nd, 2010 at 5:11 am. Reason: skipped a question
  #6  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 11:07 am
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Re: Immigration and immigrants

Immigration policies in your country: Open (pro immigrants) Closed (against) Mixed (There's a variety of laws supporting either case).
Quite open but now with all the Muslim tensions, a rather suspicious and even racist attitude towards foreigners is starting to emerge.

Do you believe immigrants have made living easier or more difficult in your country? Why?

Probably neither. I really don't know.

Are you/is anyone in your family an immigrant? Can you tell your side of the story?
We are immigrants and have been so for almost seven years, my dad for a bit longer than that. I don't have much of a side of the story. We come from a very easy going culture so it wasn't hard for us to integrate. We don't have any strong beliefs, particular dress codes, no taboos, we are Christians but not very religious. We have some small habits but nothing that can be considered bothersome or that is at odds with the country's culture and laws.

Do you want to leave your country (permanently-for a while)? What are your reasons for it?

I would like to leave my new country for a while, maybe study abroad. I am curious as to how other people do things but I don't think I would have the guts to go outside Europe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silmarilien
Yoana I completely understand, I am trapped in such a country myself, however I fear terribly the rejection I may experience in another country now, if I were to be an immigrant (however legal, as I do not wish to leave here illegally at all!) because the financial strains that affect us are not directly related to one country, but rather globalization means that most economies are affected at the same time. (Nevertheless, the reasons behind my wish to leave are far more complicated than financial ones, I just fear I may be seen as burden in a different country, though I am completely willing to embrace the new culture in full)
I understand because I miss being around people who are like me and feeling the safety one feels in their own country. There, if people hate me they hate because of who I am not because of where I was born. Most people are tolerant though so if you really want to leave then I don't think the negative attitudes of some should keep you back.


  #7  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 1:21 pm
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Re: Immigration and immigrants

Immigration policies in your country: Open (pro immigrants) Closed (against) Mixed (There's a variety of laws supporting either case).


My country (Egypt) is very open about immigrants. In the last decade immigration became quite a normal thing here. Before that, only refugees from Palestine would immigrate to Egypt, it was an uncommon thing to meet someone who isn't Egyptian. Now though, things are different. In our block, we have neighbours from China, Yemen, Palestine and Iraq. My class last year had more immigrants than the native.

Do you believe immigrants have made living easier or more difficult in your country? Why?

I don't think it affects us, not directly. Because in everyday life, immigrants are treated the same as native people.
Economically, though, I think they made a big difference. Because many of them come here for High Education, which is quite pricey.

Are you/is anyone in your family an immigrant? Can you tell your side of the story?

My family immigrated several years ago. We stayed out for about two years. I don't think it was the best experience in my life. I didn't like being a stranger in school and such. I met people who were blindly proud and would make you feel less, even though you are much better in many aspects. This treatment of theirs extended to everybody from any country or social class. It planted in me equal dislike to this place and its people.

Do you want to leave your country (permanently-for a while)? What are your reasons for it?

No. I wouldn't like to leave my country for any period, short or long. Because, I learnt that there's nothing one's own country could not provide. Also, one's going to meet difficulty wherever they live. The nature of the difficulties just changes. If one suffers from a financial situation in their country, they might suffer from loneliness, enstrangement, etc. out of their own country. Probelms exist everywhere, and imo, its not wise to think that by travelling abroad and leaving your country, means leaving all the trouble behind. Problems of other nature could arise.

Maybe my experience in that country influences my opinion on immigration, but I wouldn't want to try it again, regardless of the place.

Also, I should probably mention that I don't think that every country one immigrates to, necessarily treat immigrants in a bad way. In fact the treatment immigrants recieve here in my country proves the opposite. I'm sure there are other countries where immigrants are treated with more regard and respect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trixa
There, if people hate me they hate because of who I am not because of where I was born.
That's a very good point,


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  #8  
Old August 22nd, 2010, 7:49 pm
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Re: Immigration and immigrants

What do you guys think about immigrant vote? It doesn't happen here in Mexico (we have a pathological fear of foreign interventions), but I read that in some countries where immigrants are a significant part of the working force, they're allowed to vote in the elections. They don't have to become nationals of that particular country to vote, but they can do it to aid their interests as people who work there. Do you think that's a reasonable thing to do?


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  #9  
Old August 23rd, 2010, 4:29 am
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Re: Immigration and immigrants

Quote:
Originally Posted by FGG View Post
What do you guys think about immigrant vote? It doesn't happen here in Mexico (we have a pathological fear of foreign interventions), but I read that in some countries where immigrants are a significant part of the working force, they're allowed to vote in the elections. They don't have to become nationals of that particular country to vote, but they can do it to aid their interests as people who work there. Do you think that's a reasonable thing to do?
I'm pretty sure in Australia to vote you need to be a citizen, 18, and enrolled to vote, so unless immigrants fit all of those, then no they can't vote. I don't really see a problem with it. I'm an immigrant but have also become a citizen so I get to vote.

Immigration is all the rage in Australia at the moment, especially with the federal election we had on the weekend. I don't agree with either party's policy because what they fail to realise is that most of the illegal immigrants we have coming here, are genuine refugees (many from Indonesia and surrounding smaller countries). I wouldn't propose an open door policy whereby we let anyone who wants to in, but it would be nice to see refugees treated as real people for a change.

My family immigrated here (legally) ages ago and I had to give up my Danish citizenship when we decided to stay here (though I fully plan on going back when I'm older).


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  #10  
Old August 23rd, 2010, 5:38 pm
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Re: Immigration and immigrants

I am an immigrant.



Do you believe immigrants have made living easier or more difficult in your country? Why?

Oh, yes. I can't imagine Britain without its great immigrant population. Yes, I am one of them - but I am not representative. It's those culturally diverse people from all over the world who have made a huge difference. And yes, it's mostly positive, IMHO.

I think it's the same in AUstria - it's become decidedly more colourful since I left 14 years ago, and I think it's all for the better. However, insufficient thinking and bad policies in terms of integration have been causing problems there.

Are you/is anyone in your family an immigrant? Can you tell your side of the story?

I am an immigrant!!!
Of course, my immigration story is a simple and happy one. Came to the UK to do a PhD at a elite university, and stayed on in an academic job. I am white, in a well-paid job, and my English is (sorry for bragging) good enough to teach native speakers how to write their language properly, to proofread English texts, and of course to publish in English as well.

No integration problems here, and I love it here.
I know that immigrants with the same educational background and level of integration DO have a lot more problems than I do if they aren't white, and that does make me sad.

However, I think that on the whole, the UK must be one of the best and most welcoming countries to be an immigrant.


Do you want to leave your country (permanently-for a while)? What are your reasons for it?

Well, I have done so. It's probably going to be permanent. I have double citizenship now. Why? Because my job is in the UK and I won't find a similarly good one back here. And I really like it here. It's a coincidence, but sometimes I feel that by temperament I fit in a lot better in the UK than I did in Austria. I guess I was lucky.


Is there any particular issue regarding immigration that you'd like to share or discuss? Please feel free.

I wish countries in Europe could be more open about immigration issues.

I am not for unlimited immigration, and I think integration is something that needs to be discussed.

However, due to the right-wing press in most countries, it's impossible to discuss these issues dispassionately, and I think a failure to deal with these issues honestly is causing problems in many countries. This is something that worries me particularly in Austria, where politicians find it impossible to admit that Austria is an immigration country - if you are in denial over the simple fact that there are many immigrants of different backgrounds, you can't even start to try to work out how to accommodate them. It's really frustrating.

In the UK the problem also exists, but to a far lesser extent, not least since non-European immigration has been happening in large numbers for over half a century.




I am sorry that I have to stress the matter of ethnic, cultural and, yes, racial differences - in Europe, unfortunately, it makes a difference to the discussion - as one can see particularly in Austria, which has always been a destination for immigration - but people sadly reacted very differently to, say, the immigration of large numbers of Hungarians in 1956 than they did to African and Asian refugees in the 1990s.


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  #11  
Old August 23rd, 2010, 9:53 pm
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Re: Immigration and immigrants

Do you believe immigrants have made living easier or more difficult in your country? Why?

Don't think I can say. Immigrants surely made some difference. They brought in new cultural aspects. Many shops are managed by foreigners, mostly Russians or Turkish people. It's mostly immigrants who do the "lower" jobs.

Some negative aspects are the creation of clusters where mostly foreigners live. I just don't think that when you immigrate to another country that you should create your mini country within the other city.

Are you/is anyone in your family an immigrant? Can you tell your side of the story?

Today, exactly 20 years ago, we immigrated to Germany from Romania. We left for Germany after the fall of Ceaucescu and the fall of the borders. Living a better life and so on. I was still child so I really didn't care about that.

Integrating was easy. We never had any problems with people, most everyone was welcoming and we made friends soonish. But I guess part of the reason was that I am part of a minority in Romania with German roots. We learned German in school in Romania and wrote German, so language wise it was no obstacle.

Do you want to leave your country (permanently-for a while)? What are your reasons for it?

Yes, I plan to leave the country to find a job abroad. I lived and worked in Canada and New Zealand for two years and the lifestyle there is much more relaxed than in germany. Germans are always so stressed out and just live to work. I'm not that kind of person, so I want to leave for a country where the people are easy going.


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  #12  
Old August 23rd, 2010, 11:23 pm
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Re: Immigration and immigrants

Quote:
Do you believe immigrants have made living easier or more difficult in your country? Why?
I couldn't say. The only thing I know is that after hurricane Katrina my grandparents hired immigrants to rebuild their house and they did a really good job, so that counts as making living easier. I lived for a few years in a city in Texas that had a lot of immigrants and while I don't know if they made living easier, I really liked living around people from lots of different countries. They all brought their own cultures with them and I got to experience a lot of it. I tested different foods, heard people speaking languages I didn't understand, went to religious services that I had never been to, etc. Even seeing how people communicated nonverbally was a great experience.

Quote:
Are you/is anyone in your family an immigrant? Can you tell your side of the story?
No one in my family is an immigrant


Quote:
Do you want to leave your country (permanently-for a while)? What are your reasons for it?
I would like to leave my country for a while. There are many reasons, but they're all kind of related. Basically, I would like to live in a country where there is at least one thing about me that does not designate me as "other." I want to live some place where people do not have the prejudices that are prevalent in the U.S., though I know there is prejudice everywhere.


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  #13  
Old August 24th, 2010, 12:59 pm
Fiachra  Male.gif Fiachra is offline
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Re: Immigration and immigrants

Immigration policies in your country: Open (pro immigrants) Closed (against) Mixed (There's a variety of laws supporting either case).


Somewhat mixed. Ireland is a member of the European Union, so citizens of all other EU countries have the right to come and look for work here. However, people from outside the EU find it hard to get in here, unless they are skilled. Even women fleeing from FMG in Nigeria are deported back.

Do you believe immigrants have made living easier or more difficult in
your country? Why?


During the boom times, everyone wanted them. Now that we are in recession, everyone is basically going: Dey tukk r jurbs! While there is some merit to the argument, that if you go into a café in Dublin, you are more likely to be served by a Chinese or Polish person, than an Irish person, it's getting plain ridiculous. Businesses have to cut costs, and the Chinese and Polish are far more willing to accept the barest minimum wage than any Irish person. A bit of humility from Irish people would be good in the long run.

Are you/is anyone in your family an immigrant? Can you tell your side of the story?

My family are all Irish, at least for the last five generations. So sadly, no.

Do you want to leave your country (permanently-for a while)? What are your reasons for it?

If I can't get work after I finish holidays, I'll probably spend a few years on continental Europe to learn, or reinforce my knowledge of a few languages. I want to work in the Department of Foreign Affairs, so a good knowledge of languages is essential.

Is there any particular issue regarding immigration that you'd like to share or discuss? Please feel free.

I think that if all countries opened their borders, it would make things a lot easier. People move to where the jobs are, but if one country takes an open stance all on it's own, most immigrants will flock in there, creating massive social problems. Not surprisingly, any country that has opened it's borders has promptly closed them again. The international community as a whole needs to cooperate to fix these problems.


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  #14  
Old August 24th, 2010, 1:07 pm
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Re: Immigration and immigrants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiachra View Post
I think that if all countries opened their borders, it would make things a lot easier. People move to where the jobs are, but if one country takes an open stance all on it's own, most immigrants will flock in there, creating massive social problems. Not surprisingly, any country that has opened it's borders has promptly closed them again. The international community as a whole needs to cooperate to fix these problems.
I totally agree with that. I think, though, that the language factor also plays a part in explaining why there is more EU immigration into the UK and Ireland than out of it - sadly, most UK citizens do not have the language skills to take up job opportunities elsewhere in the EU, whereas many EU citizens have the English language skills to take up job opportunities here.


  #15  
Old August 24th, 2010, 1:17 pm
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Re: Immigration and immigrants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiachra View Post
I think that if all countries opened their borders, it would make things a lot easier. People move to where the jobs are, but if one country takes an open stance all on it's own, most immigrants will flock in there, creating massive social problems. Not surprisingly, any country that has opened it's borders has promptly closed them again. The international community as a whole needs to cooperate to fix these problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melaszka View Post
I totally agree with that. I think, though, that the language factor also plays a part in explaining why there is more EU immigration into the UK and Ireland than out of it - sadly, most UK citizens do not have the language skills to take up job opportunities elsewhere in the EU, whereas many EU citizens have the English language skills to take up job opportunities here.
Not only that, but what about countries like Australia? While I am all for multi-culturalism, we are very close to Indonesia, Papua New Guinea and other less developed countries who have extremely different cultures to us, and many who live there (mostly in the poorer parts) do not speak English. I don't want anyone to think I'm against immigration from anywhere, I'm not, but opening our doors completely could be very troubling for countries like this. I think open door policies would work better in Europe to be honest.

Having said that, if people want to immigrate here from anywhere in the world, I'm all for it as long as they go through the proper authorities (the exception would be refugees who obviously don't have that option. IMO they shouldn't just be allowed in, but after proper screening (while being treated like a person, not a criminal) should be intergrated into the community if indeed they are genuine refugees).


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  #16  
Old August 24th, 2010, 7:54 pm
Siriusandme  Female.gif Siriusandme is offline
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Re: Immigration and immigrants

Immigration policies in your country: Open (pro immigrants) Closed (against) Mixed (There's a variety of laws supporting either case).
Open, but only for refugees... The Netherlands isn't really an immigrant country.

Do you believe immigrants have made living easier or more difficult in your country? Why?
Both... This is a welfare state and unfortunately there are people who come here with the sole intent of not working and living on welfare. And then there are the teens who believe that everything is better in (insert whatever country their parents came from) and cause a big ruckus. You know... vandalism, theft, assault... And of course they need to be rewarded for their 1 month of good behavior and therefor are presented with a nice holiday to Morocco/Dutch Antilles/????. All of this tends to get quite expensive and are a strain (an irritation) to everyone else.

Are you/is anyone in your family an immigrant? Can you tell your side of the story?
Uhm... apparently my mothers family is from Belgium, which is just around the corner. But that is, I believe, at least 150 years ago... And my grandfather was born in Germany where his parents were working at that time.

Do you want to leave your country (permanently-for a while)? What are your reasons for it?
Hahaha... yes I'd love to. But my reasons are not some much financial. More to have more space. I currently live in a tiny house and the walls are so thin I can hear the toilets flush... I can't even imagine what it's like to live in a country where there are parts in between villages/towns/city's that don't belong to a villages/towns/city. Here everything belongs to something.

Is there any particular issue regarding immigration that you'd like to share or discuss? Please feel free.
I sometimes wish The Netherlands would have an actual policy on immigration. It sometimes feels like everyone who has a sad story is let in and people who could actually mean something to this country aren't. There are plenty of foreign students who don't get a visa to study here even though they could go on to work for big companies or start a company or they could go back home with a decent diploma and some experience. Too bad really...


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  #17  
Old August 24th, 2010, 10:34 pm
Fiachra  Male.gif Fiachra is offline
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Re: Immigration and immigrants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melaszka View Post
I totally agree with that. I think, though, that the language factor also plays a part in explaining why there is more EU immigration into the UK and Ireland than out of it - sadly, most UK citizens do not have the language skills to take up job opportunities elsewhere in the EU, whereas many EU citizens have the English language skills to take up job opportunities here.

Yeah, it's fairly pathetic how much effort is put into teaching languages here as well. The Dutch, for instance, know two if not three languages by the time they finish school. The same goes for the Germans...

Quote:
Not only that, but what about countries like Australia? While I am all for multi-culturalism, we are very close to Indonesia, Papua New Guinea and other less developed countries who have extremely different cultures to us, and many who live there (mostly in the poorer parts) do not speak English. I don't want anyone to think I'm against immigration from anywhere, I'm not, but opening our doors completely could be very troubling for countries like this. I think open door policies would work better in Europe to be honest.
You are beside Indonesia, we're beside Africa and the Middle East. Same story all over again there...


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  #18  
Old August 25th, 2010, 1:55 pm
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Re: Immigration and immigrants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siriusandme View Post
Immigration policies in your country: Open (pro immigrants) Closed (against) Mixed (There's a variety of laws supporting either case).
Open, but only for refugees... The Netherlands isn't really an immigrant country.
Uhm the Netherlands is an immigrant country and always has been. In fact if we hadn't received so many immigrants through the ages (starting with the Middle Ages) we would never have been as rich a country as we are now. We wouldn't have had our famous Golden Age in the 17th century, wouldn't have had such a history of trade and banking. That was all possible thanks to immgrants from all over Europe and especially the Spanish part of the Netherlands (now Vlaanderen, the north part of Belgium). I can go on...

In the 20th century we have had economical immigrants from Southern Europe (Italy), Turkey and Marokko, who came here to do the dirty work Dutch people didn't want to do anymore. Now we have economical immigrants from Eastern Europe. So no, the Netherlands isn't a country which only allows political refugees as immigrants.

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Both... This is a welfare state and unfortunately there are people who come here with the sole intent of not working and living on welfare. And then there are the teens who believe that everything is better in (insert whatever country their parents came from) and cause a big ruckus. You know... vandalism, theft, assault... And of course they need to be rewarded for their 1 month of good behavior and therefor are presented with a nice holiday to Morocco/Dutch Antilles/????. All of this tends to get quite expensive and are a strain (an irritation) to everyone else.
Right... be careful that you don't make generalisations here. Because who are 'people' and 'the teens' makes it sound if all children of immigrants are causing trouble. Which seeing how many of them actually do behave and get schooling is not correct in my view.

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I sometimes wish The Netherlands would have an actual policy on immigration. It sometimes feels like everyone who has a sad story is let in and people who could actually mean something to this country aren't. There are plenty of foreign students who don't get a visa to study here even though they could go on to work for big companies or start a company or they could go back home with a decent diploma and some experience. Too bad really...
We have an actual policy. Read this you want to know about our immigration policy.


Political refugees often have a sad story, because they are presecuted in their country because of their believes or resistance to the autorities. They can be put in prison or even put to death for their views. So yeah sad stories, we have a moral duty to help them IMO.

I think students should be admitted. The trouble is they are considered economical immigrants and thus make use of financial aid. Which means certain groups in Dutch society do not want them here.


  #19  
Old August 25th, 2010, 4:58 pm
silmarilien  Female.gif silmarilien is offline
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Re: Immigration and immigrants

Very interesting points, I actually put up this thread right after the situation with the Roma people in France. I see that there is now a thread regarding that particular issue.

I have to say, I understand the points argued in the thread so far, basically on one hand immigrants can be a significant workforce that once integrated to a society can be very beneficial. It is also true that what Klio said, makes a difference not just in Europe I think.
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the matter of ethnic, cultural and, yes, racial differences - in Europe, unfortunately, it makes a difference to the discussion
For instance that open immigration policies probably work better within the EU. I think this is particularly accurate because on a development level, Europe is more or less on the same level, which facilitates integration. I agree that it would make a lot of sense now that they've united to encourage students to learn more than one or two languages, apart from their native tongue.

But then when there are development differences it is difficult for them to integrate. I see this in my own country and they are not immigrants at all, but rather some native cultures that have their own protected territory. They like the advances western civilization have in technology, but they disregard our education and laws. I wonder if this happens also with immigrant groups.

I also don't agree with minicountries within a country, but I understand how some people feel the need to sort of band together to make it through within the new culture, but I don't agree with this view. If you leave your own country, usually it is because you did not have it better back there and if a new country is welcoming you (I am still in the case of legal immigration) you should, I think, try your best to become a part of that community: learn the language, respect their ways and honor them, participate in the local holidays and events and of course keep some of your own traditions too if you like.

But personally, if I move, I'm not putting up a Venezuelan flag anywhere else. I'll proudly wave the one of the country that has given me the opportunity to live a safer lifestyle.

Do you think that what makes immigration a difficult issue (apart from illegal moves) is that some people try to stress their differences in the new community too much? How do you protect your identity and still blend in?


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  #20  
Old August 25th, 2010, 5:09 pm
Fiachra  Male.gif Fiachra is offline
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Re: Immigration and immigrants

Quote:
For instance that open immigration policies probably work better within the EU. I think this is particularly accurate because on a development level, Europe is more or less on the same level, which facilitates integration. I agree that it would make a lot of sense now that they've united to encourage students to learn more than one or two languages, apart from their native tongue.
In terms of development, countries such as Poland, Estonia, and Romania have remained behind. Hence, the immigration to countries like Ireland and the UK during the boom times. If all countries were on the same developmental level, people would want to stay at home, for the most part.


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