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People's Misconceptions of Feminism



 
 
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  #81  
Old August 2nd, 2010, 1:27 am
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Re: People's Misconceptions of Feminism

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Originally Posted by MistressofRaven View Post
@Midnightsfire: Men on average are stronger than women, but do you believe that women are so weak we actually need men to hold doors open for us? Doors are not that heavy.
Old world gentlemanly courtesy should not merit scorn.
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Originally Posted by MistressofRaven View Post
But I echo what other people said, what has that to do with feminism except to demonstrate people's misconceptions about it as Trixia pointed out?
How can anyone have a misconception over an opinion? Which is what feminism is. One can ask five different people what feminism is and get five different answers.


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  #82  
Old August 2nd, 2010, 1:34 am
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Re: People's Misconceptions of Feminism

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Originally Posted by Midnightsfire View Post
Old world gentlemanly courtesy should not merit scorn.
Why ever not? If people are behaving based on ideas I find wrong why should I not scorn them? As the saying goes, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Quote:
How can anyone have a misconception over an opinion? Which is what feminism is. One can ask five different people what feminism is and get five different answers.
But will those five different people be feminists? If one wants an opinion on feminism I think it's better to ask people who actually identify as such.


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  #83  
Old August 2nd, 2010, 1:37 am
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Re: People's Misconceptions of Feminism

What they do...it's called "courtesy". You know the same nonsense like helping you with your cloak and yadda yadda. Stuff where people think that it's nice when you do it. But I agree it's all rubbish. We should stop holding open doors for others all together. Everyone should be responsible for their own door opening.


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  #84  
Old August 2nd, 2010, 1:39 am
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Re: People's Misconceptions of Feminism

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What they do...it's called "courtesy". You know the same nonsense like helping you with your cloak and yadda yadda. Stuff where people think that it's nice when you do it. But I agree it's all rubbish. We should stop holding open doors for others all together. Everyone should be responsible for their own door opening.

I know I can open a door. But I feel special when someone takes the time to open it for me even though they know I can do it myself. Different strokes for different folks.


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Old August 2nd, 2010, 1:43 am
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Re: People's Misconceptions of Feminism

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Originally Posted by Grymmditch View Post
I'm all for equal rights too, (and a guy) but feminism is about females -thus the name "feminism".
Good point. Rename it to "Equalism" or whatever and there's a much better tone to it.

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Originally Posted by lightreading View Post
Feminism is about equal rights. If you want equal rights for men and women, you're a feminist, guy or not.
No, you are not. I am feminist when I say so and not because of what I support or not.


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  #86  
Old August 2nd, 2010, 1:46 am
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Re: People's Misconceptions of Feminism

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Originally Posted by flimseycauldron View Post
I know I can open a door. But I feel special when someone takes the time to open it for me even though they know I can do it myself. Different strokes for different folks.
True. I hold doors for people when I see they're carrying something that prevents them from doing so, male or female. I know some women like it but for me it just feels patronizing (and I think the feelings of the recipient of the action are more important than those of the doer).


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  #87  
Old August 2nd, 2010, 2:18 am
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Re: People's Misconceptions of Feminism

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Originally Posted by MistressofRaven View Post
(and I think the feelings of the recipient of the action are more important than those of the doer).
Why? I was always brought up. "Do as you would have done unto you." That fact that someone is trying to be respectful shows willingness. I can get why people may not like it but I don't get why it has to be offensive.


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  #88  
Old August 2nd, 2010, 4:25 am
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Re: People's Misconceptions of Feminism

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lightreading
Feminism is about equal rights. If you want equal rights for men and women, you're a feminist, guy or not.
I strongly disagree. I want equal rights for men and women but have never, and am not, a feminist. It's my choice whether I want to identify that way, and I choose not to.


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  #89  
Old August 2nd, 2010, 4:32 am
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Re: People's Misconceptions of Feminism

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Originally Posted by Midnightsfire View Post
Old world gentlemanly courtesy should not merit scorn.
It's sexist. It may be "benevolent" sexism, but it's sexist. Openly doors for people is a nice thing to do, but it shouldn't be based on sex. I hold doors open for people if they look like they could use the help or if they reach the door at the same time I do, regardless of gender or sex. To me, that's gentlemanly courtesy.

I purposely make sure I walk far enough behind guys so that they won't open doors for me.


  #90  
Old August 2nd, 2010, 4:54 am
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Re: People's Misconceptions of Feminism

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Originally Posted by DancingMaenid View Post
It's sexist. It may be "benevolent" sexism, but it's sexist. Openly doors for people is a nice thing to do, but it shouldn't be based on sex. I hold doors open for people if they look like they could use the help or if they reach the door at the same time I do, regardless of gender or sex. To me, that's gentlemanly courtesy.

I purposely make sure I walk far enough behind guys so that they won't open doors for me.

The question is, how do you know it's based on sex and not on common courtesy?


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  #91  
Old August 2nd, 2010, 5:01 am
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Re: People's Misconceptions of Feminism

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Originally Posted by MistressofRaven View Post
Why ever not? If people are behaving based on ideas I find wrong why should I not scorn them? As the saying goes, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."
It's not about intentions, but about simple courtesy.
And which is demonstrating rude behavior? Or is this the public image of the feminist? It seems to cultivate a certain misandry...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MistressofRaven View Post
But will those five different people be feminists? If one wants an opinion on feminism I think it's better to ask people who actually identify as such.
If all five make the claim, you have no leg to stand on to refute them. (since they are entitled to their opinion as you are)

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Originally Posted by DancingMaenid View Post
It's sexist. It may be "benevolent" sexism, but it's sexist.
It certainly is. And most people are okay with being a little sexist. Just as they are treating men like men, and women like women.


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  #92  
Old August 2nd, 2010, 5:05 am
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Re: People's Misconceptions of Feminism

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Originally Posted by flimseycauldron View Post
Why?
The feelings of the recipient matter more because they have to suffer the negative consequences of the action being done. I think a woman feeling patronized and belittled is worse than a man not feeling courteous (especially considering that the women does not even want the courtesy).


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I was always brought up. "Do as you would have done unto you."
Well, if you believe this don't you think it's important to consider other people's feelings? I'm assuming that if someone does something you find offensive you wouldn't want them to tell you not to get mad because they're just being courteous.

Quote:
That fact that someone is trying to be respectful shows willingness.
Willingness to what?

Quote:
I can get why people may not like it but I don't get why it has to be offensive.
It's not that it has to be offensive. The fact is that it is offensive to some women. A man opening the door for a woman because he's a man and she's a woman is sexist. Some people do not like sexism, even if it's in the form of a courtesy or compliment.


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  #93  
Old August 2nd, 2010, 5:10 am
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Re: People's Misconceptions of Feminism

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Originally Posted by DancingMaenid View Post
It's sexist. It may be "benevolent" sexism, but it's sexist. Openly doors for people is a nice thing to do, but it shouldn't be based on sex. I hold doors open for people if they look like they could use the help or if they reach the door at the same time I do, regardless of gender or sex. To me, that's gentlemanly courtesy.

I purposely make sure I walk far enough behind guys so that they won't open doors for me.
Can I ask, and I am honestly just looking for a little clarity here, not intending to be offensive.

You have absolutely no way to know what a person's intentions are. You have absolutely no idea if a guy opening a door for you opens it because he is being nice, because he thinks you look tired, because you have your arms full, because he beat you to the door, or if he opens it because (and I find this unlikely) he looks at you and thinks "Oh look, a woman! She must be entirely incapable of opening a door on her own!".

So how exactly is it not sexist of you to assume that every man opening a door for you is sexist?


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  #94  
Old August 2nd, 2010, 5:22 am
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Re: People's Misconceptions of Feminism

That's because it is sexist to assume anything about anyone if you're basing it on their sex. Sexism is discrimination based on a person's sex, not just discrimination against women. Assuming a man is up to no good just because he is a man is just as sexist as assuming a woman likes hair products just because she's a woman.


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  #95  
Old August 2nd, 2010, 5:35 am
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Re: People's Misconceptions of Feminism

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Originally Posted by mac_attack View Post
So how exactly is it not sexist of you to assume that every man opening a door for you is sexist?
I don't assume that, but since I can't know, I'd rather not be put in a position where I have to wonder. If I genuinely needed the help, such as if I was carrying a bunch of stuff, then of course I assume that was why the person helped and I appreciate it.

But when I'm casually strolling along and a strange guy stands holding a door open for several seconds, waiting for me, I have to wonder. I'm not very appreciative, either, considering I feel pressured to hurry up since I'm still several feet from the door.


  #96  
Old August 2nd, 2010, 5:42 am
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Re: People's Misconceptions of Feminism

It seems to me that there are some decidedly negative connotations to feminism.

I guess some women just don't like men behaving like gentlemen.

Call it sexism if you will, I personally appreciate the differences between a man and woman and will behave appropriately.


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  #97  
Old August 2nd, 2010, 5:43 am
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Re: People's Misconceptions of Feminism

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Originally Posted by DancingMaenid View Post
But when I'm casually strolling along and a strange guy stands holding a door open for several seconds, waiting for me, I have to wonder. I'm not very appreciative, either, considering I feel pressured to hurry up since I'm still several feet from the door.
Are you equally suspicious if a woman holds the door for you under the same circumstances? I'm not putting words in your mouth, but from this it sounds like the situation is somehow worse if the door-opener is a man, just because he's a man. What if it's a woman? Do you wonder the same things? Are you equally unappreciative of the gesture?


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  #98  
Old August 2nd, 2010, 5:48 am
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Re: People's Misconceptions of Feminism

Well, mac, how many times have you seen a man open door for a man? It's true that there are other reasons as well--my ex, who was about two years older than me, used to open doors for me 24/7, and when I asked him about it, he said it was because I was younger....but then he hesitated and then said, 'And, you know, guys do that for girls.'
So, basically, even if they're doing it MOSTLY for other reasons, a lot of the time, 'she's a girl, so I should do it for her' is at the back of their minds--no misandry, Midnightsfire, just the truth.
Quote:
I guess some women just don't like men behaving like gentlemen.
Oh, I love gentlemen. Sexist men, however, I dislike.
Sexism is not gentlemanly.
Besides, what's the problem with getting rid of all of these old-world gender roles, anyway? They're ancient. Let's be done with them, for goodness' sake.


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Last edited by lightreading; August 2nd, 2010 at 5:51 am.
  #99  
Old August 2nd, 2010, 5:52 am
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Re: People's Misconceptions of Feminism

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Originally Posted by FGG View Post
Are you equally suspicious if a woman holds the door for you under the same circumstances? I'm not putting words in your mouth, but from this it sounds like the situation is somehow worse if the door-opener is a man, just because he's a man. What if it's a woman? Do you wonder the same things? Are you equally unappreciative of the gesture?
I'd find it very annoying if a woman did that, especially if it was because of my physical sex.

However, I've yet to have a woman hold a door open for me. I don't think it's ever happened.


  #100  
Old August 2nd, 2010, 6:02 am
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Re: People's Misconceptions of Feminism

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Well, mac, how many times have you seen a man open door for a man?
Er...all the time? Seriously almost every day.


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