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UK Politics v2.



View Poll Results: Which party will get your vote?
Conservatives 4 23.53%
Labour 4 23.53%
Liberal Democrats 9 52.94%
Green Party 0 0%
UKIP 0 0%
Regional (Scottish, N. Ire, Welsh Parties) 0 0%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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  #21  
Old April 13th, 2010, 9:52 pm
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Re: United Kingdom Election 2010

Neither Labour nor the Tories have my vote at the moment. Haven't heard anything from the Lib Dems that gets me excited for them either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mundungus Fletc View Post
The Tories tax breaks for married couples look like a damp squib - a whole 2.88 a week if you are married! What are they thinking of?
Waste of time. If you're going to make marriage a big part of your values platform, then you have to offer something substantially better than this. It's almost as if they've stayed up all night trying to get some numbers together just to get it out before the election, rather than just wait until there's some proper finance available through whatever austerity measures they can achieve. I'm also not sure how the measure addresses things such as widows, people in abusive relationships that need out, etc. Do you lose allowances because of circumstances outside your own control?

But then I just find it ironic with the Tories that they talk about small government and less state intervention, but when it comes to the domestics, they just have to get their oar in. If you really want to be a party of small government & hands-off of peoples lives then be that party.

And this national insurance nonsense with business leaders whining and moaning about having to pay for the increase in those earning over 20 grand. Anyone here worked in retail, filling shelves & working tills that has even got close to earning 20 grand? I never did. What's the bulk of employees at supermarkets earning these days? My mother spent 30 years in retail and got nowhere near 20 grand.

But these business leaders were probably part of the same mob that whined and moaned when the minimum wage was introduced and the country survived that apocalypse.

It's all just a smokescreen anyway. I'll be glad when this election is over, then we can look forward to the next one in October


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  #22  
Old April 13th, 2010, 10:49 pm
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Re: United Kingdom Election 2010

Quote:
But these business leaders were probably part of the same mob that whined and moaned when the minimum wage was introduced and the country survived that apocalypse.
As a rule, whenever you switch on the news and hear people like the Confederation of British Industry moaning and complaining about something, whatever that thing is, it's probably good for British society and living standards.


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  #23  
Old April 13th, 2010, 11:54 pm
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Re: United Kingdom Election 2010

I find it's best to get the whole picture on an issue rather than just relaying on one group or individual for the facts.

Having read the Tory Manifesto, there are some interesting ideas in it. But it has not swayed me one bit.


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  #24  
Old April 14th, 2010, 12:19 am
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Re: United Kingdom Election 2010

Here is a cynical take on the Labour-Manifesto:

Government by Hogwarts

I thought I'd link it fo the HP references.

The author has a point, but of course, much of his criticism is due to aspects of the manifesto which most manifestos would share (i.e. grand sweeping statements and overly idealistic aims dressed up as promises.)


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  #25  
Old April 14th, 2010, 12:35 am
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Re: United Kingdom Election 2010

It'd be nice if manifestos were legally binding.

Then political parties might have to tell the truth for once.

It's fine and jolly to promise things before an election

Quite another to deliver them


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  #26  
Old April 14th, 2010, 2:52 am
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Re: United Kingdom Election 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mundungus Fletc View Post
I suspect a Labour mole is working for the Tories. How else can you explain their launching of the manifesto at the derelict Battersea Power Station? It is a symbol of what they did to the country last time they were in power and all attempts to develop the site since then have been thwarted by the local Tory council
The whole thrust of the manifesto is intriguing. Seems the Tories have abandonned Conservative values in favour of a proto-anarchist agenda:

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Cameron
Be your own boss, sack your MP, chose your own school, own your own home, veto council tax rises, vote for your police commissioner, save the local post office, see how your government spends your money.
As the report notes: "With responsibility for doing so much being handed to the public, it is hard to see what Mr Cameron will be doing".

The idea of "co-operatives of public sector workers" is straight out of the Marxist-Leninist playbook.

The choice of Bryan Ferry's "Let's Stick Together" as the theme song is also odd. It may fit in with the party slogan but the song is about a whiny male who wants his wife to stay in a bad marriage.


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  #27  
Old April 14th, 2010, 9:09 am
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Re: United Kingdom Election 2010

The Telegraph has an interesting game to play comparing your views with the parties' statements. Unfortunately they don't include the Monster Raving Loony Party, my choice at present


  #28  
Old April 14th, 2010, 11:46 am
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Re: United Kingdom Election 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klio View Post
Here is a cynical take on the Labour-Manifesto:

Government by Hogwarts

I thought I'd link it for the HP references.

The author has a point, but of course, much of his criticism is due to aspects of the manifesto which most manifestos would share (i.e. grand sweeping statements and overly idealistic aims dressed up as promises.)
Government by Hogwarts. I feel that way about the Tory manifesto as well. (Schools run by parents???!!! What parent has the TIME to do that??? And why can't governments actually trust the professionals to, you know, do their jobs?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mundungus Fletc View Post
The Telegraph has an interesting game to play comparing your views with the parties' statements. Unfortunately they don't include the Monster Raving Loony Party, my choice at present
I took that test and came out a Liberal Democrat. Very liberal in some respects, rather more conservative in others.


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  #29  
Old April 14th, 2010, 1:19 pm
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Re: United Kingdom Election 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl_Took View Post
Government by Hogwarts. I feel that way about the Tory manifesto as well. (Schools run by parents???!!! What parent has the TIME to do that??? And why can't governments actually trust the professionals to, you know, do their jobs?)
Because professionals have this nasty habit of expecting a salary, perhaps?

Maybe I'm missing something, but I find it somewhat inconsistent that, when justifying bankers' or MPs' or private sector senior executives' pay the Tories usually hold to the "If you pay peanuts you get monkeys" line - that good calibre candidates will only be attracted by financial incentive. And yet when it comes to public services, suddenly they insist that the best calibre candidates will be voluntary organisations, who are working for no financial incentive at all.


  #30  
Old April 14th, 2010, 2:12 pm
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Re: United Kingdom Election 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melaszka View Post
Because professionals have this nasty habit of expecting a salary, perhaps?


I have never forgotten the merciless bashing that teachers got from the right-wing tabloids during Thatcher's regime. I remember thinking at the time: "Just SHUT UP and let TEACHERS DO THEIR JOBS."

Not that New Labour has an unblemished record in this regard, albeit for different reasons. Too much admin, too much red tape, too much 'nanny state' mentality. It's the reason my sister left teaching, after over 20 years in the profession, and is now much happier as an educational psychologist.

Quote:
Maybe I'm missing something, but I find it somewhat inconsistent that, when justifying bankers' or MPs' or private sector senior executives' pay the Tories usually hold to the "If you pay peanuts you get monkeys" line - that good calibre candidates will only be attracted by financial incentive. And yet when it comes to public services, suddenly they insist that the best calibre candidates will be voluntary organisations, who are working for no financial incentive at all.
This aspect of Toryism has never been one of their selling points for me.


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  #31  
Old April 14th, 2010, 3:46 pm
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Re: United Kingdom Election 2010

I thought this might interest people, JK Rowling's "The single mother's manifesto" - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle7096786.ece


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  #32  
Old April 14th, 2010, 4:07 pm
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Re: United Kingdom Election 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wab View Post
The choice of Bryan Ferry's "Let's Stick Together" as the theme song is also odd. It may fit in with the party slogan but the song is about a whiny male who wants his wife to stay in a bad marriage.

Not odd at all. Fits the sort of thing they have in mind with their married couples' tax credit, I suppose.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl_Took View Post


I have never forgotten the merciless bashing that teachers got from the right-wing tabloids during Thatcher's regime. I remember thinking at the time: "Just SHUT UP and let TEACHERS DO THEIR JOBS."

Not that New Labour has an unblemished record in this regard, albeit for different reasons. Too much admin, too much red tape, too much 'nanny state' mentality. It's the reason my sister left teaching, after over 20 years in the profession, and is now much happier as an educational psychologist.

Yes - BOTH parties have been making big advanes towards destroying the university system in a similar manner. It's outrageous. And of course nobody talks about it because universities are apparently too 'elitist' to be an electioneering topic.

This is ironic, seeing that they swamped us with huge student numbers for almost no extra money in order to get 50% of people into university. Youd' think that this would make it worth talking about....


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  #33  
Old April 14th, 2010, 5:36 pm
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Re: United Kingdom Election 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klio View Post
Not odd at all. Fits the sort of thing they have in mind with their married couples' tax credit, I suppose.
But more broadly, campaign-wide, it's saying you should stick with us just because.


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  #34  
Old April 14th, 2010, 6:09 pm
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Re: United Kingdom Election 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl_Took
Government by Hogwarts. I feel that way about the Tory manifesto as well. (Schools run by parents???!!! What parent has the TIME to do that??? And why can't governments actually trust the professionals to, you know, do their jobs?)
It's actually schools run by any independent trust that wishes to do so, and here I fail to see the problem, it works fine in Sweden- in fact, extremely well. And letting local school boards cover their own needs surely is trusting professionals to do their jobs?

It certainly seems better than Labour's policy whereby parents can hire-and-fire the entire senior management team. No doubt there will be countless more directives and new national strategies for children's play as long as that ghastly Ed Balls remains running the Education Department.


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  #35  
Old April 14th, 2010, 7:31 pm
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Re: United Kingdom Election 2010

I took the Telegraph test.

Results

Liberal Democrats: 60%
UK Independence Party: 59%
Green Party: 55%
Labour Party: 46%
Conservative Party: 46%


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  #36  
Old April 14th, 2010, 10:52 pm
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Re: United Kingdom Election 2010

Ah, I just saw that.
Conservatives 66%
Labour 63%
Liberal Democrats 38%
UKIP 34%
Greens 28%


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  #37  
Old April 15th, 2010, 12:16 am
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Re: United Kingdom Election 2010

I got

Lib Dems 75%
Green 69%
Labour 59%
Conservatives 36%

Couldn't bring myself to leave UKIP and BNP in the mix.

Here's the link, if anyone else is interested:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/elec...election1404am

Overdose, we're near diametric opposites!

There's also this one I found, which gave me similar results, but Greens topped Lib Dems and the Conservatives trailed dramatically.

http://www.whoshouldyouvotefor.com/



Last edited by Melaszka; April 15th, 2010 at 12:28 am.
  #38  
Old April 15th, 2010, 12:58 am
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Re: United Kingdom Election 2010

Oh wow. Though to be fair, I think that particular quiz (as with all quizzes) can hardly bring in much of the nuances of policy. Obviously it identifies me pretty clearly as either a moderate conservative or the "new" in new Labour, but I agree with the Liberals a lot more than the quiz states, especially on civil liberties and crime.

I've said it before but I will strongly consider voting against the Conservatives this election. I thought it was a mistake to leave the EPP, despite holding that particular pan-European group in relatively low esteem. I support what I deem to be a realistic economic plan, and if that has to include fiscal stimulus then good. Of course I think that Brown was irresponsible in his use of public money and I despise a lot of topdown management that a tired Labour government has brought in but again, I attribute much of that to the 'tired' aspect.

Oh, plus I grew up in a single parent family and much of that Rowling article does hit the nail on the head. I'm optimistic about people, which is why I generally support priviate initiative, and my career has moved me into a position to support free trade as far as possible. What I cannot stand is the snide, unpleasant demonising of certain sections of society that for some reason seems to come so naturally to so many.


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  #39  
Old April 15th, 2010, 5:46 pm
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Re: United Kingdom Election 2010

At the moment I am very much on the fence I have no idea how I'm going to vote. I think I have some serious reading to do. I took that test and came out as Lib Dems at 49% and Tories at 40% (I too could not ever put the BNP into the mix). Going to watch the debate tonight should be interesting.

I found the JKR article interesting, I agree that single mums are in a horrible position and need support thankfully I've never been in that position myself. This maybe wildly off topic but I can't say that our experience of Surestart centres was a positive one. We found them to be patronizing (I got the feeling they thought we were too young at 22) and I was looked down upon because (for medical reasons) my baby wasn't breastfed. I was more than happy to 'escape' their attention when we moved to an area that Labour feels doesn't need a centre.

I don't agree with 'marriage tax'. Marriage should be for love not 2.88 a week!


  #40  
Old April 15th, 2010, 6:44 pm
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Re: United Kingdom Election 2010

There is and always has been the perfect third party for us fence-sitters.

www.loonyparty.com/

Even after the death of the noble Screaming Lord, the Loonies march ever on.


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