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  #81  
Old February 28th, 2008, 7:37 am
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Re: The Relationship Between Science and Religion

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Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods View Post
I see nothing wrong with science trying to prove the existence of a God or if religion would give logical explanations of scientific theories. I only feel that religion should not come in the way of science or indeed anything else. The role of religion is to make people aware of God and his greatness and all that. Not to dictate what science can do or cannot do.

If religion would object to anything that science would do, let it, but let it not allow its objections to take such steps that it may stop the reasearch itself. Unless that reasearch would mean more harm than good.

And I am not an atheist.

I don't think it's wrong - I think it is a great approach for many people who are religious and non-religious, including myself. What I was suggesting was that trying to mix and blend the two together harmoniously by using one of them to prove the other. As for regulating science, although I am religious, I believe separation of state and church is good and it's the government and the general public's job, not church, although this is entirely my opinion.


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  #82  
Old February 28th, 2008, 8:52 am
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Re: The Relationship Between Science and Religion

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Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
What I was suggesting was that trying to mix and blend the two together harmoniously by using one of them to prove the other.
They may try, and if they can interpret each other that would be great. But I don't know if that will happen, because I feel for any religion to accept scientific logic that may need changes in their religious books or views would be a tough thing to do. What they can do is to draw people to their side by presenting God in a way that appeals to all, instead of insisting science should not do certain things because it is against the religious law as mentioned in the Books.

Quote:
As for regulating science, although I am religious, I believe separation of state and church is good and it's the government and the general public's job, not church, although this is entirely my opinion
I am in complete agreement with this. I think the State should have nothing to do with religion at all and science and religion should stay seperate. But the church or any other religion interferes the moment it feels threatened by science or even politics on any level and that creates disharmony and also disillusionment with the people who do believ in a scientific appraoch and makes them choose between the two IMO.


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  #83  
Old March 28th, 2008, 11:02 am
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Re: The Relationship Between Science and Religion

1. Based off of your religious beliefs, do you think that some forms of scientific research should be restricted?

Never. Science has extended our knowledge of the universe much more than religion has. Science should not be restricted, unless if poses long-term harm to an organism (psychological or physical).

2. What impact has religion had on scientific advances? Has organized religion held up the progress of scientific advancement?

Religion has held back many scientific advancements.

3. What do you think the relationship between religion and science should be?

Compeltley seperate.


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  #84  
Old March 28th, 2008, 2:51 pm
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Re: The Relationship Between Science and Religion

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Originally Posted by taintorthodoxy View Post
Never. Science has extended our knowledge of the universe much more than religion has. Science should not be restricted, unless if poses long-term harm to an organism (psychological or physical).
Alas, this is very hard to do.

If Michaelangelo hadn't sculpted David, no one else could have done it. But if the scientists who developed the atomic bomb hadn't done it, someone else would have.

This is the difference between art and science. Science will come, no matter what. All we can do is hope that by the time we develop it, we'll be mature enough to use it wisely.


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  #85  
Old March 29th, 2008, 1:15 pm
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Re: The Relationship Between Science and Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by chparadise View Post
Discussion questions:

1. Based off of your religious beliefs, do you think that some forms of scientific research should be restricted?
No. Religious beliefs should not limit scientific advances.

Quote:
2. What impact has religion had on scientific advances? Has organized religion held up the progress of scientific advancement?
Well, it's hard to say, but for the most I would say that organised religion has indeed stood in the way of scientific advance. Take Galileo, who was a Catholic. The Pope ordered him not to advocate heliocentrism because it went against scripture, while Galileo argued that such an concept did not go against scripture. Soon enough, he was put on trial and imprisoned. He was later put under house arrest, went blind, and died. His works, over the years, were censored by the church but they later realised that he was right, and so all traces of opposition to his work have disappeared, and the church now treats him as a hero.

Quote:
3. What do you think the relationship between religion and science should be?
Ideally, there shouldn't be one. Although, I don't think that scientists shouldn't hold religious convictions, I just think that the scientific and religious spheres should be quite distinct. Otherwise, there will inevitably be friction and argument (rightly so) which will hinder scientific progress.


  #86  
Old April 6th, 2008, 2:26 am
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Re: The Relationship Between Science and Religion

1. Based off of your religious beliefs, do you think that some forms of scientific research should be restricted?
I find it interesting that many have said no to this question. But I gather that many hold to such restrictions that already exist.

To clarify, I don't believe that anyone wants to see the same level of human experimentation that was conducted during WWII in Nazi Germany.

Has organized religion held up the progress of scientific advancement?
I don't believe it has had a demonstrable impact.

3. What do you think the relationship between religion and science should be?
I don't believe that such a relationship is needed.


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  #87  
Old April 7th, 2008, 12:20 am
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Re: The Relationship Between Science and Religion

What do you mean when you say that no relationship is needed, Mids?

Also, religion has had a demonstratable effect on the development of science. Galileo was held back because of religion, and even today we have religious reasons for the delays in stem cell reseach.


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  #88  
Old April 7th, 2008, 7:37 am
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Re: The Relationship Between Science and Religion

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Originally Posted by Tiberius View Post
Galileo was held back because of religion,
Sorry to repeat myself but Galileo was held back because an unholy alliance between religion and science. The consensus among natural philosophers (the predecessors to science) was that the sun went round the earth (Aristotle's view) and they were just as vociferous in condemning him as was the Church.


  #89  
Old April 7th, 2008, 4:37 pm
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Re: The Relationship Between Science and Religion

1. Based off of your religious beliefs, do you think that some forms of scientific research should be restricted?

As an atheist, it is my moral beliefs rather than religious beliefs that affect this. I take quite a humanist view on this, and say that suffering is the most important issue. Stem cell and embryonic research, for example, are absolutely fine with me. An embryo has no nervous system, so it cannot suffer.

As a side note, to argue that it has the potential to be a human being seems to me the same as saying that by not having sex at this moment I am denying future life. A pretty ridiculous argument to me.

2. What impact has religion had on scientific advances? Has organized religion held up the progress of scientific advancement?

I would say more often than not it has. There are numerous examples - human dissection being made illegal for religious reasons, the Church punishing anyone who questioned Galen's work during the middle ages, stem cell research in modern times - even the use of anaesthetics in childbirth was opposed by some on the grounds that women were to suffer for Eve's sin.

3. What do you think the relationship between religion and science should be?

I don't see that religious beliefs deserve any more respect than any other beliefs simply because they are religious. It would be wrong, for example, if someone's political beliefs somehow held up scientific advancement. I see no reason why the same does not apply to religion.


Apologies if I come across as agressive on these issues, I mean not to offend but to encourage debate.


  #90  
Old June 25th, 2008, 5:29 pm
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Re: The Relationship Between Science and Religion

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What they can do is to draw people to their side by presenting God in a way that appeals to all, instead of insisting science should not do certain things because it is against the religious law as mentioned in the Books.
Surely though this goes against what religion is actually for. A religious person who has faith surely believes something because they do, not because it seems nicer or appeals more to the time period.


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  #91  
Old June 27th, 2008, 7:16 pm
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Re: The Relationship Between Science and Religion

There is a movie in the works, a sequel (though in truth it is a prequel) to The Da Vinci Code, called Angels & Demons. It centers greatly around the relationship between Science and Religion, specifically Christianity.

For those who have not read the book, I greatly advise it. Without giving away the plot, science has developed the basis for either the world's energy problems or the means to rip the fabric of Space/Time into shreds. In the middle is The Catholic Church and a mysterious Anti-Cult known as The Illuminati.

1. Based off of your religious beliefs, do you think that some forms of scientific research should be restricted?

Science and Religion are just as synonymous as they are antagonists. They both seek TRUTH, but the problem both have is they see the other as the ENEMY. But I see them as interdependent, and, therefore neither should be restricted.

2. What impact has religion had on scientific advances? Has organized religion held up the progress of scientific advancement?

Starting with The Holy Roman Empire we saw a decline in scientific achievement and research. Before Rome was unified under Christianity, the Arts, and Sciences were promoted, and encouraged. It is my firm belief that had The Catholic Church not seriously limited research, we would have discovered electricity by the 5th Century, human flight would have been discovered by the 6th Century, computers would have ruled the world and we would have put a man on the moon by the mid 6th, and, jumping ahead to the present, we would be well into exploring the whole of our solar system.

However, I also believe that had it not been for the fortitude of faith, we would be in grave peril as a species right now. Science sometimes asks "If it can?" rather than asking "If it should?"

3. What do you think the relationship between religion and science should be?

I think I have already answered that, by saying I feel they are interdependent. There should be a balance between them. Faith tempered with questions needing answers, and answers tempered with morality.


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  #92  
Old June 27th, 2008, 10:18 pm
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Re: The Relationship Between Science and Religion

I think that it is difficult to dictate the extent to which science and religion ought to overlap, because of the different ways in which religious and non-religious people view the world.

Naturally, if you believe that using embryos in stem cell research is going to send someone to hell, you would see it as your moral duty to try to stop that person from doing it, because of the suffering incurred by their going to hell. However, if you do not believe that using embryos in stem cell research will send you to hell, you are obviously going to think that you ought to do the research, because of the potential to make a discovery that will greatly reduce human suffering here on earth.

Therefore, to those whose religious beliefs conflict with scientific advancement, it is clear that science must be impeded, because of the potential for eternal damnation, but to those with no such convictions, those with religion are being unreasonable. And thus we reach something of a stalemate. Who is to say which is the more important? Because really it all comes down to faith: whether or not you have it defines what must be the obvious answer to you.


In the following (and indeed above, where appropriate!) please forgive my shorthand terms "religious" and "non-religious" by which of course I mean having, or not having, religious beliefs/personal moral/ethical codes which see stem cell research as wrong.

So the problem is really how science and religion can interact in such a way as to infringe neither the rights of the religious nor the rights of the non-religious. It seems that, depending on whether the religious or the non-religious are right, there are two risks. Let us take stem cell research as an example:
If the religious are right, the non-religious risk going to hell (or missing out on heaven!).
If the non-religious are right, the religious risk unneccesarily increasing human suffering.

In order to discriminate against neither party, we must surely allow both parties to take their respective risks: the non-religious must be allowed to continue the research, and the religious must be allowed to opt out, having no part either in the research itself or any benefits gained which contradict their religious belief.

P.S.
rigdoctorbri:
"However, I also believe that had it not been for the fortitude of faith, we would be in grave peril as a species right now. Science sometimes asks "If it can?" rather than asking "If it should?"
I think I have already answered that, by saying I feel they are interdependent. There should be a balance between them. Faith tempered with questions needing answers, and answers tempered with morality."

Just wondering...do you think that religion is neccesary for answers to moral questions? Or do you think that philosophers and thinkers generally can also answer the questions of whether we should do things? Do you think that scientifically minded thinkers, such as Bertrand Russell, can also answer questions of right and wrong without the need for faith?



Last edited by amandam_xym; June 27th, 2008 at 10:26 pm.
  #93  
Old June 28th, 2008, 12:25 am
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Re: The Relationship Between Science and Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by amandam_xym View Post
Quote:
P.S.
rigdoctorbri:
"However, I also believe that had it not been for the fortitude of faith, we would be in grave peril as a species right now. Science sometimes asks "If it can?" rather than asking "If it should?"
I think I have already answered that, by saying I feel they are interdependent. There should be a balance between them. Faith tempered with questions needing answers, and answers tempered with morality."
Just wondering...do you think that religion is neccesary for answers to moral questions? Or do you think that philosophers and thinkers generally can also answer the questions of whether we should do things? Do you think that scientifically minded thinkers, such as Bertrand Russell, can also answer questions of right and wrong without the need for faith?
No, I don't think that religion is necessary, but I do feel that a certain amount of spirituality is. That spirituality does not necessarily require a religious basis, but it does require an acknowledgement that we are responsible to something more than just ourselves. That can either be a Higher Power, humanity, the Earth, or the Universe.

I believe for a scientist to act, he or she should first THINK. Questioning "What if...?" and weighing all the positive and negative repercussions is imperitive. All science, no philosophy is inherently dangerous.

If you are asking if I feel that true Atheists can decide what is right or wrong, then I would say "yes" to an extent.


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  #94  
Old July 8th, 2008, 2:33 am
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Re: The Relationship Between Science and Religion

1. Based off of your religious beliefs, do you think that some forms of scientific research should be restricted?
Based off of religious beliefs, no...I don't consider myself a religious person. However, based off of moral beliefs, yes. For example, genetic customization in humans. I'm not opposed to this because of the whole "playing God" arguement, I just don't think that it is right for parents to be able to choose the traits of their children.

2. What impact has religion had on scientific advances? Has organized religion held up the progress of scientific advancement?
I don't think that religion has anywhere near the amount of restraining power on science research that it had in earlier times. Delays brought about by religion in those times (I'm talking like...mid to late last millenium) may have caused ripples that affect "where we could be now" (if that makes sense...)...but I don't think we're at a bad point technologically right now (besides gas issues, but that is for another thread). I doubt that an absence of religious influence in the would have allowed us to advance our technologies that much faster, but, you never know. Nowadays, I don't think that religion has that much effect on scientific progression. Things like stem cell research and other types of genetic research and cloning may be hindered by the religious beliefs of officeholders and their constituents, but as far as I've heard, most scientific research isn't stopped by religion, even though it may later be refuted by individuals or whole religious groups (for example, evolution...some religious sects/individuals don't believe the theory, but I haven't heard of any efforts to stop research into it on religion's behalf). I'm not completely informed on this topic, but I would also assume that in a non-theocratic society, the government would not have total control over science anyway. Kinda like the movie, Astronaut Farmer...a rocket was built in private before the government could stop it...if scientists really were driven or convinced of something, they could most likely arrange for the conduction secret research without the consent of the government (not saying I support this, but it's possible). So, in short, my answer to the second part of this question is, not to a disastrous or damaging degree. Sorry, that seems kind of hard to follow now that I look back at it... I was kinda just writing stuff as it popped into my head.

Oh, just thought of something else...think of wars. Many wars have been based around religious components...but don't wars also bring about technological advancements, for better or for worse? A-bombs, poison gas, nuclear weapons, medical techniques...so this is another example of how religion can positively or negatively affect technology.

3. What do you think the relationship between religion and science should be?
I think that a policy similar to separation of church and state should be used...I don't think that the mission of science should be to disprove religion, or vise versa. They are able to coexist independent of eachother. I think that it should stay that way as much as possible, except in fields where technology may be used to try to "prove religion" (I don't know of any particular fields that do this, but there's fields for practically anything, so...) If scientists themselves have religious qualms about certain types of research, then they could simply decide to pursue other avenues of research. It's kind of similar to having religion "forced" on you...scientists who don't share the same beliefs as others, whether atheist, agnostic, or simply less conservative, shouldn't be hindered because of the religious beliefs of others. All of this within certain agreed-upon moral boundaries, of course...no using humans (or anything for that matter...just my personal thoughts...)to test death penalty methods just because you don't believe in punishment in an afterlife, for a rather extreme example.

Some of that seems kind of hard to follow...oh well...

ETA:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rigdoctorbri View Post
No, I don't think that religion is necessary, but I do feel that a certain amount of spirituality is. That spirituality does not necessarily require a religious basis, but it does require an acknowledgement that we are responsible to something more than just ourselves. That can either be a Higher Power, humanity, the Earth, or the Universe.

I believe for a scientist to act, he or she should first THINK. Questioning "What if...?" and weighing all the positive and negative repercussions is imperitive. All science, no philosophy is inherently dangerous.

If you are asking if I feel that true Atheists can decide what is right or wrong, then I would say "yes" to an extent.
I haven't read the entire discussion here, but this struck me as a good way to think of things. I don't consider myself religious...maybe agnostic. But, I don't want to do anything that would hurt others or damage the environment (or universe for that matter...)for ourselves and our posterity (I need to get out of US History mode...) I don't feel like I'm the only person who will be affected by my actions, so therefore there is an element of responsibility to others, though not necessarily a deity.

*ETAETA
Though, like ComicBookWorm, I'd like to hear a further explanation as to the "to an extent" part.


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Last edited by Kitunen; July 8th, 2008 at 2:43 am.
  #95  
Old July 8th, 2008, 2:41 am
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Re: The Relationship Between Science and Religion

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Originally Posted by rigdoctorbri View Post
If you are asking if I feel that true Atheists can decide what is right or wrong, then I would say "yes" to an extent.
On what do you base your decision that atheists are limited in their ability to make moral choices?


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  #96  
Old July 8th, 2008, 2:47 am
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Re: The Relationship Between Science and Religion

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Originally Posted by ComicBookWorm View Post
On what do you base your decision that atheists are limited in their ability to make moral choices?
And keep the reply in line with the thread topic too


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  #97  
Old July 25th, 2008, 2:31 pm
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Re: The Relationship Between Science and Religion

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Originally Posted by Overdose View Post
Surely though this goes against what religion is actually for. A religious person who has faith surely believes something because they do, not because it seems nicer or appeals more to the time period.
Religion is for telling people to live their lives according to a particular set of rules, which that religion feels will benefit those people. If the times and the minds of people change as it has so drastically since the time the Books were written to the present period, I feel there is nothing wrong in changing a few rules to make religion more adaptable for today; one does not need to change the faith, the words of God or anything like that, but the rules which are quite distinct from God, I believe can be changed.

--------------

And religion whether we like it or not, seems to have a great influence and power over the State and its politics.

What I don't understand is why religion cannot be confident of itself to keep out of the way of scientific research, because if science is wrong, then its experiments will prove religion correct. By interfering, I feel religion only makes itself look a lot more unsure of itself and its concepts, not to mention its faith IMO.

Another way could be for religion to undertake those very experiments and prove science wrong; but that never happens either.


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  #98  
Old July 25th, 2008, 4:38 pm
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Re: The Relationship Between Science and Religion

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Originally Posted by Midnightsfire View Post
1. Based off of your religious beliefs, do you think that some forms of scientific research should be restricted?
I find it interesting that many have said no to this question. But I gather that many hold to such restrictions that already exist.

To clarify, I don't believe that anyone wants to see the same level of human experimentation that was conducted during WWII in Nazi Germany.
Objection to human experimentation doesn't need a religious basis. A basic ethical belief in the dignity of human life suffices.


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  #99  
Old July 25th, 2008, 6:31 pm
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Re: The Relationship Between Science and Religion

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Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods View Post
one does not need to change the faith, the words of God or anything like that, but the rules which are quite distinct from God, I believe can be changed.

Which rules do you mean? Most rules have a direct correllation the relevant religious text. Some people choose to believe the literal words of the bible. (I'm thinking where the bible says that a woman shall not cut her hair) Most people take an abstract view of that but how do you tell a woman who believes the literal word that she can/should not. And if you let someone believe the literal word in some cases how can you not let them believe the literal word in all cases?


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  #100  
Old July 25th, 2008, 6:34 pm
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Re: The Relationship Between Science and Religion

Rules that govern out lives, our morals, our rights and wrongs as determined by religion. God IMO is completely divorced from this.


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