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The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3



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  #121  
Old January 17th, 2009, 5:52 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Jasper and Carlisle's back stories are the best. It seems we know more about Jasper's human life than Edwards! Knowing more about the character, their back story and why they are, the way they are makes the character more real and therefore interesting. Why is it that the most interesting character is basically just a back round character?
Excellent question. One theory of mine is that Meyers, once she got to Eclipse, had had a smidge more practice at writing and learned how to create a more substantial character, but that only happened after she'd created Edward and Bella.

Jasper owns Edward in so many ways. I mean, all the time Edward's going on and on about how hard it is to restrain himself around Bella, what with her intoxicating scent and his one-hundred-some-odd years of virginity (which would make anybody cranky, I admit). But Jasper, having been a soldier in his human life, and a full-fledged killing machine for the first hundred years or so of his vampire life, shows a lot more willpower and strength of character, having not been raised as a 'vegetarian' and being so new to the Cullen brood. Also let's not forget that Edward was the first Cullen besides Carlisle. He ought to have this restraint thing figured out by now, freesia-scented-blood notwithstanding.

I know Jasper doesn't have the same attraction to Bella that Edward does, because he's not her 'soulmate' and all, but he hasn't been practicing the not-eating-humans thing for as long. And what happened in the first book? They put Bella in a car, and then a hotel room, alone with both Alice and Jasper, and nothing happened. (Apart from the James incident, I mean.) We all love Alice, we know she'd probably be able to distract Jasper enough to prevent any accidents. But still! Does that seem phenomenally stupid to anyone else? Unless of course, you consider the fact that Jasper is, well, awesome.

(I've been a bit obsessed with Jasper lately, heh.)


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  #122  
Old January 17th, 2009, 6:23 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Jasper owns Edward in so many ways. I mean, all the time Edward's going on and on about how hard it is to restrain himself around Bella, what with her intoxicating scent and his one-hundred-some-odd years of virginity (which would make anybody cranky, I admit). But Jasper, having been a soldier in his human life, and a full-fledged killing machine for the first hundred years or so of his vampire life, shows a lot more willpower and strength of character, having not been raised as a 'vegetarian' and being so new to the Cullen brood. Also let's not forget that Edward was the first Cullen besides Carlisle. He ought to have this restraint thing figured out by now, freesia-scented-blood notwithstanding.

I never thought of it like that. Taking that into consideration, Jasper pretty much kicks butt.


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  #123  
Old January 17th, 2009, 6:47 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Jasper owns Edward in so many ways. I mean, all the time Edward's going on and on about how hard it is to restrain himself around Bella, what with her intoxicating scent and his one-hundred-some-odd years of virginity (which would make anybody cranky, I admit). But Jasper, having been a soldier in his human life, and a full-fledged killing machine for the first hundred years or so of his vampire life, shows a lot more willpower and strength of character, having not been raised as a 'vegetarian' and being so new to the Cullen brood. Also let's not forget that Edward was the first Cullen besides Carlisle. He ought to have this restraint thing figured out by now, freesia-scented-blood notwithstanding.
I TOTALLY agree!!! Edward just whines way too much. I like a guy who can just suck it up way better.

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I know Jasper doesn't have the same attraction to Bella that Edward does, because he's not her 'soulmate' and all, but he hasn't been practicing the not-eating-humans thing for as long. And what happened in the first book? They put Bella in a car, and then a hotel room, alone with both Alice and Jasper, and nothing happened. (Apart from the James incident, I mean.) We all love Alice, we know she'd probably be able to distract Jasper enough to prevent any accidents. But still! Does that seem phenomenally stupid to anyone else? Unless of course, you consider the fact that Jasper is, well, awesome.

(I've been a bit obsessed with Jasper lately, heh.)
Jasper has it way worse than Edward probably. Edward only has to put up with Bella, Jasper has to put up with well, everybody else. it does seem pretty stupid, but I supposed Edward trusted Alice enough.


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  #124  
Old January 17th, 2009, 11:57 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

^That scenario is the weirdest, surely. I'd use the 'well, Edward must've known how good Jasper is at controlling himself' argument - except there's that first chapter of New Moon to deal with. There's something there that just doesn't click.


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  #125  
Old January 19th, 2009, 10:41 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

[quote=Caliope;5218111So to answer your question, Rebel - I think the scenario you've come up with is possible. I doubt SM considered it, and I don't think she'll ever write it, but it is plausible for Jake to die and for Nessie to be left alone.[/QUOTE]

i think jake could die. but he would have to stop phasing. even though i'm sure he'll gather enough control to stop phasing, i think that since he has nessie, he'd keep doing it, just to stay young with her...

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The thing about Steph's characters are that they are so...stereotypical. I mean, Rosalie is the cheerleader, Emmet's the jock. Enough said about Bella and Edward. Jaz and Alice are probably the least stereotypical characters.

you guys can't have it both ways! make up your minds! You're complaining about meyerpires because she decided to mess with a very beloved stereotyped creature; but then you say her characters are stereotyped. which one is it? Rose And Emmett i get, but at least Meyer gave us a reason for Rosalie's idiocy. She's not just some brainless bimbo, she has a history. and yes...Jasper and Alice are standout characters
...but seriously. You either like that she changed stereotypes or you see her characters as surface-skimming, run-of-the-muck...i'm not sure which reply i'm supposed to give when people won't chose their attack. attack and feint...

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well, when it wasn't his fault when Bella's finger got cut in NM. and I always got the impression he was never in love with Bella the way Edward, Alice, Carlisle and Esme were. He certainly didn't hate her, but he didn't go out of his way for her.

I don't think Jasper was being mean in NM. it was just an instinct...like sharks remember? I don't think Jasper disliked Bella at all, I think he truly liked her, but just struggled in being around a human, who had no problems with close proximity to a bunch of vampires. In Twilight, Jasper tells Bella that she's wrong when they're in Phoenix, and that she is worth the risk they all take for her. I thought that was earnest. Jasper also accepts her as part of the family...

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I know! At first when Rosalie was really protective of preggersBella I thought she was turning into a friend....PSYCH! Smeyer totally regressed Rosalie's character to pre-Eclipse, and it really was very disappointing.
haha i never saw Rose turning into a friend. she was just too arrogant, and in it only for the baby. that's all she wanted. she could care less about Bella, but Bella knew she'd understand wanting to save the baby.


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I hadn't realized Alice had come to stand behind me again. "And you ducked your head, like a good southern gentleman, and said, 'i'm sorry, ma'am.'" Alice laughed at the memory.
Jasper smiled down at her. "You held out your hand, and i took it without stopping to make sense of what i was doing. For the first time in almost a century, i felt hope." (page 301 Eclipse Stephenie Meyer



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  #126  
Old January 19th, 2009, 4:41 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Originally Posted by Hermi0nechik92 View Post
you guys can't have it both ways! make up your minds! You're complaining about meyerpires because she decided to mess with a very beloved stereotyped creature; but then you say her characters are stereotyped. which one is it? Rose And Emmett i get, but at least Meyer gave us a reason for Rosalie's idiocy. She's not just some brainless bimbo, she has a history. and yes...Jasper and Alice are standout characters
...but seriously. You either like that she changed stereotypes or you see her characters as surface-skimming, run-of-the-muck...i'm not sure which reply i'm supposed to give when people won't chose their attack. attack and feint...

I think what was meant by stereotypical was the characters personalities, not the fact that their vampireness is. She changed how vampires are, but some of their personalities remain very two dimensional. As stated before, Rose is the cheerleader, Emmett is the jock, Esme is the mother. And while I feel that Jasper is awesome, if we never got is back story he'd be as bad as the rest of them. So while Meyer's vampires are not stereotypical, their personalities still are


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  #127  
Old January 19th, 2009, 6:42 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

^Yeah, that.

Meyers has a lot of unique ideas about the vampire myth, but her characterisations - with a few notable, underdeveloped exceptions - are painfully weak. So what she's done with vampires is a good thing: It's fresh, new and very creative. What she chose to do with the individuals in her story, vampires and humans alike, is not.

Rosalie presents a different problem. She got a decent backstory in Eclipse, which after a lot of reflection seems like the strongest volume in the saga, but with Breaking Dawn she went back to being the shallow pretty one taking up space in the background. If she'd done what I was expecting her to do once Nessie was born - meaning steal the baby and turn into the possessive, evil she-vamp she resembled in the preceding chapters - I would've been much happier. But nope - she turned into a mostly normal aunt who liked to play dress-up with the baby, perfectly happy to let Bella keep the kid. That's what was going through my head the whole time - Rosalie's biggest beef with being a vampire is the fact that she never had a child, and she's always resented Bella. This was the perfect opportunity for Rosalie to claim that inner demon and let it run loose, taking this adorable little creature that Bella produced and providing a real inner conflict for the Cullen brood. But she just let it go, and I found that incredibly frustrating.

So many of the characters are either half-developed or have radical changes of heart for no apparent reason, and that was a prime example of that happening.

EDIT: By the way, I'd classify Alice as the cheerleader in this Label The Cullens game. Because she's, y'know, cheerful.


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  #128  
Old January 19th, 2009, 6:59 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

Yeah, Alice is the cheerleader, but the non snobby kind(well, i've never met one unfortunately...), Rosalie's more of just the popular snobby rich girl. I would've preferred a story about how Rosalie tries to steal Nessie than the Volturi, honestly . That would've been hilarious


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  #129  
Old January 19th, 2009, 7:29 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Rosalie presents a different problem. She got a decent backstory in Eclipse, which after a lot of reflection seems like the strongest volume in the saga, but with Breaking Dawn she went back to being the *****y pretty one taking up space in the background. If she'd done what I was expecting her to do once Nessie was born - meaning steal the baby and turn into the possessive, evil she-vamp she resembled in the preceding chapters - I would've been much happier. But nope - she turned into a mostly normal aunt who liked to play dress-up with the baby, perfectly happy to let Bella keep the kid. That's what was going through my head the whole time - Rosalie's biggest beef with being a vampire is the fact that she never had a child, and she's always resented Bella. This was the perfect opportunity for Rosalie to claim that inner demon and let it run loose, taking this adorable little creature that Bella produced and providing a real inner conflict for the Cullen brood. But she just let it go, and I found that incredibly frustrating.

To be honest, I half expected Rosealie to to steal the baby. When Bella woke up after being changed I wouldn't have been surprised if Nessie and Rose were half way across the country. The thing Rose wanted more than anything was a child, and her stealing Nessie would have made more sense for her character than just sitting back and being an aunt.
But having Rose take Nessie would have meant that one of the Cullens was an 'evil' character, which I don't think would have flown.


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  #130  
Old January 19th, 2009, 7:33 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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To be honest, I half expected Rosealie to to steal the baby. When Bella woke up after being changed I wouldn't have been surprised if Nessie and Rose were half way across the country. The thing Rose wanted more than anything was a child, and her stealing Nessie would have made more sense for her character than just sitting back and being an aunt.
But having Rose take Nessie would have meant that one of the Cullens was an 'evil' character, which I don't think would have flown.
what do you mean by flown? As in gone well with fans or gone well with the story? Because personally, i would've loved it


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  #131  
Old January 19th, 2009, 8:15 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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what do you mean by flown? As in gone well with fans or gone well with the story? Because personally, i would've loved it

While I would have loved it too, I don't think it would have fit the story. The Cullens are supposed to be like angels, at least that is how Bella sees them. So if one defected and hurt her, like stealing Nessie, that wouldn't really fit. Not that there haven't been little contradictions before, but I feel that would have been a major contradiction. Even though taking Nessie would have fit Rose's character more than just sitting back and being an aunt.

maybe I'm over/underestimating Rose's character though


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  #132  
Old January 19th, 2009, 8:21 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

Actually, I think depicting at least one of the Cullens as capable of something really awful would've really added to the story


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  #133  
Old January 19th, 2009, 11:51 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

I agree with that. It sort of would have added a second layer to one of the characters. I understand that it wouldn't have been Carlisle, and for romantic reasons, it couldn't truly be Edward, the point being that he was never a monster. Rosalie's story was captivating, so I can't view her as capable of great evil. Perhaps Jasper, having been conditioned to it, could have been seen to have even more trouble adjusting- or even Emmett, since his character wasn't fleshed out half enough, and it would have added hugely to his romance with Rosalie too, given them something to mull over.


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  #134  
Old January 20th, 2009, 1:45 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

Hmm, that would be interesting if Emmett did something terrible, such as steal Nessie. That would show his love for Rose, and deepen his character at the same time. Would Rose stand by Emmett if he did that? it is hard to say...


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  #135  
Old January 20th, 2009, 1:55 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Hmm, that would be interesting if Emmett did something terrible, such as steal Nessie. That would show his love for Rose, and deepen his character at the same time. Would Rose stand by Emmett if he did that? it is hard to say...
that's just genius and while it's out of character, we barely know the characters anyways so instead of being contradictory, it deepens character. I would love to read that.


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  #136  
Old January 20th, 2009, 3:26 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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To be honest, I half expected Rosealie to to steal the baby. When Bella woke up after being changed I wouldn't have been surprised if Nessie and Rose were half way across the country. The thing Rose wanted more than anything was a child, and her stealing Nessie would have made more sense for her character than just sitting back and being an aunt.
But having Rose take Nessie would have meant that one of the Cullens was an 'evil' character, which I don't think would have flown.
I don't think Rosalie would've gotten away with it. not with Emmett, who has grown to love Bella; or Jasper or Carlisle or Jake standing by. And Alice would've seen that coming too. Just stating the obvious I think Rose would've been the only opportunity for SMeyer to bring in a "darker Cullen" the rest grew to love Bella, just like she did towards them. Nobody else would've harmed her...well...on purpose.


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I hadn't realized Alice had come to stand behind me again. "And you ducked your head, like a good southern gentleman, and said, 'i'm sorry, ma'am.'" Alice laughed at the memory.
Jasper smiled down at her. "You held out your hand, and i took it without stopping to make sense of what i was doing. For the first time in almost a century, i felt hope." (page 301 Eclipse Stephenie Meyer



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  #137  
Old January 20th, 2009, 5:12 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

Alice would have seen it coming, but since Rose is her 'sister,' she may have done something more cryptic and mysterious to fix it - like what she did with locating the other half-breeds and putting Bella in touch with Mr. J.

I'd have liked to see a darker Cullen, and Rose would've been it. Sure, Bella loves all of them, but she and Rose rubbed each other the wrong way from day one. Plus, getting through that struggle could have given them an opportunity to really work past that rough patch in their relationship, and ultimately become closer as a result. See, it doesn't have to be an unhappy ending, even with a scenario like that - the struggle to get to that point would've made the happy ending more poignant.


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Old January 20th, 2009, 8:22 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

It's out of sync for me to say this, I guess, given my want of more tension throughout the series, but it strikes me that the fight between Bella and Rosalie was simply not deep enough throughout the story for me to fully appreciate it as a fight. I either wanted it to be a long term thing, that there would long exist some tension, or that it would entirely resolve itself in the usually happy go lucky tone of the series as a whole.

That's a bit conflicted, but I felt the Bell-Rose tension wasn't dealt with well enough to suit me at all.


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  #139  
Old January 21st, 2009, 5:43 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

Maybe it's because the motivation behind their relationship is so fuzzy. At first I just had this idea that Rose (being the typical elitist vampire in this particular context) just didn't want Bella hanging around because she was human, and that was dangerous and not a good idea for Edward. Which I understand - that's a cliche, but it's a classic one, and it's easy to follow. After that, when Bella learned more about the Cullens' history and found out Rose was brought in as a potential life-mate for Edward, there was this "I'm not worthy!" jealousy/self-deprecation thing stirred into the mix, if only from Bella's POV, and that made her both afraid of and resentful of Rose. (Tanya filled in that role later on.) And then in Eclipse, when we get Rose's backstory and real reason she doesn't want Bella becoming a vampire - you'll regret missing so much, I wish I could go back, I'm actually jealous of you, etc. - it inverts the preexisting relationship between them. Some tension is still there, but you gain a bit of insight into Rose and the two of them learn to coexist more or less peacefully.

And then there's Breaking Dawn, in which Rose goes of villainess to *poof* in just a handful of pages. As much as I love Jake's POV chapters, it would have been nice to see inside Bella's head for that part, to maybe get some of the conversation between her and Rose and figure out what was going on there.

Except for the very end, there is always some tension between Rose and Bella. It just flip-flops too much, and since Rose was initially painted as one of the mean characters (and Bella has plenty of more interesting friends that are more trustworthy) it's easy to either forget or just not care about Rose. The dynamic between them never quite gets to the 'friend' place. Which is why I think that either the Steal The Baby scenario I described before, or getting some of Bella's conversations with Rose about the baby, would help get them to that place more smoothly and more believably.


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  #140  
Old January 21st, 2009, 7:32 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

I wish that the Rose/Bella tension was further explored in the first 3 books. It would have made Rose's character deeper and it would have been interesting to see how Bella reacted to such negative treatment.

And while it would have been cool and interesting to see Rose go to the dark side in BD, I like what we see of her character in it, it seems very believable. Bella went to Rose when she new she was pregnant because she knew that Rose would be the only one to help her in keeping the baby. Even though Rose helps Bella through the pregnancy for purely selfish reasons, she still helps her, which I think deepens their relationship.

And it would have been nice to have seen that conversation from Bella's POV, it would have added to both of their characters.


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