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The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3



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  #41  
Old January 5th, 2009, 10:53 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Originally Posted by sirius_lee_G View Post
I agree with you and I actually wish there was something bad just to give it a twist
But even then there would be fans who wanted that one charcter to live or something like that.
But JKR still had the strength to write out the deaths of her own characters, knowing fully well how angry some fans could be, but she also understand how it would make the story more believable and stronger which is what's really important


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  #42  
Old January 6th, 2009, 12:54 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

you're right
I'm not going to argue because I totally agree..

and that's also why I love the harry potter series more than Twilight.


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  #43  
Old January 6th, 2009, 1:42 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Originally Posted by sirius_lee_G View Post
I agree with you and I actually wish there was something bad just to give it a twist
But even then there would be fans who wanted that one charcter to live or something like that.
True, but it shouldn't have really mattered to her. Sometimes you have to let the characters do their thing. Most great writers have admitted that their characters take on a life of their own.


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And along with that, which I entirely agree with, the point was made above that she never finished the story. I wanted to hear more and see more of how the Volturi fell. It's sort of as though Big Brother wins out in the end, get mildly rebuked and go back to ruling the world the next day, just as strong and unhindered as ever.

Which is all fine and well if the intention is to build something Orwellian. But in a romance-vampire story, it wasn't exactly expected, to be honest. Especially since the Volturi Survival didn't actually stand for anything as it would have in a dystopia novel. I simply expected them to be more punished and punishable.
Yeah, I said that back on Volume 3 - The Volturi needed to go down. And I think she could have done it despite her protest that many beloved characters would have died. I don't believe it really. I think Bella showed how powerful she was with the blocking. At most, we could have gotten rid of Rosalie. And they could have found someone more pleasant for Emmett - that's a relationship I just don't get at all. Emmett the fun lovin' guy and Rosalie the, well, not so nice person.


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But JKR still had the strength to write out the deaths of her own characters, knowing fully well how angry some fans could be, but she also understand how it would make the story more believable and stronger which is what's really important
Very true. As I said above, she was never going to be able to please all of the fans and quite frankly she wound up pleasing none of them really. BD was a total mixed bag. I didn't hate it, but I still found it unsatisfying.

I always wonder if she didn't write the battle scene because she couldn't. As someone who has dabbled in the art of creative writing, it's not always easy to describe certain situations. Notice how we don't see what the Cullens do to James. We don't witness the battle with Victoria and her newborns either. Yes, it's from Bella's POV, but how convenient, right? Then we get Bella at a battle and . . . nothing.

Unsatisfying, I say. Totally unsatisfying. I still think that the Volturi meant something - the old ways and the Cullens would be the new way. More democratic, less aristocratic. Not that the Cullens would "Rule" or anything but between them and the survivors from the Final Battle they could have thought of a better way to handle politics among their kind. In a way she showed, similar to JKR in HP with magic, that being a vampire doesn't necessarily make everything better either. I recall Bill Cosby's comic routine from the 1980s about drugs where he says that people tell him that cocaine is good because it amplifies your personality. And Bill Cosby asks, well what if you are "not a nice person"? Ahem, trying to keep it family friendly.

But you get the point. Being a vampire didn't make Rosalie better, it didn't make any of them better except maybe Carlisle who became a great doctor. It was better for Bella maybe in the sense that she was no longer the delicate flower that needed protecting from others and from her own clumsiness. Of course, I'm sure she was as stubborn as ever!


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  #44  
Old January 6th, 2009, 2:45 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

[quote=ladykrystyna;5213927]
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Yeah, I said that back on Volume 3 - The Volturi needed to go down. And I think she could have done it despite her protest that many beloved characters would have died. I don't believe it really. I think Bella showed how powerful she was with the blocking. At most, we could have gotten rid of Rosalie. And they could have found someone more pleasant for Emmett - that's a relationship I just don't get at all. Emmett the fun lovin' guy and Rosalie the, well, not so nice person.
Yeah, some of the cullens would have been lost, and I don't think the deaths would have hurt the story. It didn't with hp. I guess stephenie really wanted her happy ending. I still think it could have been relatively happy the way hp is. Loss and sacrifice are a part of these conflicts. As long as edward, bella, nessie, and jacob survived the way the trio did in hp it would have been a somewhat happy ending.



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Very true. As I said above, she was never going to be able to please all of the fans and quite frankly she wound up pleasing none of them really. BD was a total mixed bag. I didn't hate it, but I still found it unsatisfying.
yeah - I still enjoyed BD but I agree that there was no closure.


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I always wonder if she didn't write the battle scene because she couldn't. As someone who has dabbled in the art of creative writing, it's not always easy to describe certain situations. Notice how we don't see what the Cullens do to James. We don't witness the battle with Victoria and her newborns either. Yes, it's from Bella's POV, but how convenient, right? Then we get Bella at a battle and . . . nothing.

That could be. I didn't think of that. You are right- we never get any details of the battle in any of the books. Not in twilight with james, not with the newborns ( I do recall being somewhat disappointed at missing the action there but at least we got edward and seth fighting victoria and riley), and of course, not with the volturi.

Quote:
Unsatisfying, I say. Totally unsatisfying. I still think that the Volturi meant something - the old ways and the Cullens would be the new way. More democratic, less aristocratic. Not that the Cullens would "Rule" or anything but between them and the survivors from the Final Battle they could have thought of a better way to handle politics among their kind.
I still have to believe that there is a final showdown between the volturi and the cullens brewing in stephenie's mind somewhere! I stubbornly can't see it ending with the volturi just running off.


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  #45  
Old January 6th, 2009, 5:47 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

[quote=phoenix88;5213962]
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Originally Posted by ladykrystyna View Post
I still have to believe that there is a final showdown between the volturi and the cullens brewing in stephenie's mind somewhere! I stubbornly can't see it ending with the volturi just running off.
That's exactly the point. Exactly. It's not so much that none of our beloved main characters die, but the fact that the Voluri get to skulk off back to their dark tower in the end - with the idea that they might be back later with a better idea, so the Cullens aren't really getting away with anything either. They're just buying themselves a little time. NOTHING was resolved. It's just plain not finished.


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  #46  
Old January 6th, 2009, 5:50 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

[quote=Caliope;5214027]
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Originally Posted by phoenix88 View Post
That's exactly the point. Exactly. It's not so much that none of our beloved main characters die, but the fact that the Voluri get to skulk off back to their dark tower in the end - with the idea that they might be back later with a better idea, so the Cullens aren't really getting away with anything either. They're just buying themselves a little time. NOTHING was resolved. It's just plain not finished.
Seriously. It was all "they'll come back, but la la la till then." I mean, really? I wanna see some conflict!


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  #47  
Old January 6th, 2009, 8:56 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

Actually, SM is quite good at building up the momentum...and then...blah. If that's her idea of a plot twist, I want a refund of my twenty bucks! I don't blame Marcus for being so bored-I would too if I were in a sappy story like him.


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  #48  
Old January 6th, 2009, 3:57 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

The tension is great - that's what keeps you reading. Which in my opinion is one of the reasons folks get so frustrated with her - all that build up, all that combat training, and then nada.

EDIT: And on that note, Eclipse was infinitely more satisfying.


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  #49  
Old January 6th, 2009, 5:03 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

I agree. Eclipse was WAY more satisfying than BD. That's probably why I was so disappointed with the "big" confrontation at the end of BD. I get the whole chess analogy, I really do. But while that may work for some, the only time I like chess is when I'm actually playing it. It's kind of like golf in that way: fun to play, boring to watch.
And Marcus being totally bored the whole time in BD was actually insanely funny to me for some reason.


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Old January 6th, 2009, 6:14 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Actually, SM is quite good at building up the momentum...and then...blah. If that's her idea of a plot twist, I want a refund of my twenty bucks! I don't blame Marcus for being so bored-I would too if I were in a sappy story like him.

yeah she did a great job building the momentum, introducing all the new vampires, etc. The chess game aspect was great, but there was no definitive resolution. I know SM has said that twilight was bella's story and as far as she is concerned, bella's story is finished. However, I just don't see it that way. Bella's story isn't done until the volturi are dealt with. She'll always know they are still out there after her and her family. I can't see her resting easy knowing that.


I agree that eclipse, when I look back, was probably the best of the books in terms of balance. There was action, an actual fight, and plenty of romantic tension.


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  #51  
Old January 6th, 2009, 9:57 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Originally Posted by MC2456 View Post
Actually, SM is quite good at building up the momentum...and then...blah. If that's her idea of a plot twist, I want a refund of my twenty bucks! I don't blame Marcus for being so bored-I would too if I were in a sappy story like him.
I defintely agree. Meyer is all about build up but she completely fails at doing proper conflict. We KNOW she can do it pretty well, as we see in Eclipse, she even had the sense to at least have some casualties, but BD was a complete disappointment. Except for not being able too look back at my book for details for discussion, I have not regretted returning it.


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  #52  
Old January 7th, 2009, 12:55 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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I get the whole chess analogy, I really do. But while that may work for some, the only time I like chess is when I'm actually playing it. It's kind of like golf in that way: fun to play, boring to watch.
HAHAHA - someone should put that on a bumper sticker. "Chess: It's fun to play, boring to watch!"

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Originally Posted by phoenix88
I know SM has said that twilight was bella's story and as far as she is concerned, bella's story is finished. However, I just don't see it that way. Bella's story isn't done until the volturi are dealt with. She'll always know they are still out there after her and her family. I can't see her resting easy knowing that.
Oh wow, I just thought of something - what about all the other half-vampires in South America that Alice and Jasper discovered? The Volturi are probably going to pay them a visit too, maybe start some sort of global power struggle the likes of which vampire kind hasn't seen before.

Ooooh, if only someone would write a real epic showdown like in Queen of the Damned...... This has so much potential for awesome it pains me to see it unrealized.


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  #53  
Old January 7th, 2009, 1:36 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Ooooh, if only someone would write a real epic showdown like in Queen of the Damned...... This has so much potential for awesome it pains me to see it unrealized.
That's exactly what we needed in BD but we didn't get it. It's like, as a writer, she knew that there needed to be conflict, but she just didn't deal with it very well. She was just so focused on "Bella's story" she kind of forgot that stories have multiple elements.

It's kind of how I felt about the Harry and Ginny story thread in HBP and DH. I know that HP is not a love story and the story was about Harry and Voldemort and resolving that. But still, Ginny needed to have a place in DH and she became nothing more than a trophy girl. JKR should have expanded herself outside the Harry POV more and given us what was going on at Hogwarts and Ginny should have STAYED and she and Luna and Neville could have ruled the roost as the D.A. members, at least until Luna got kidnapped.

Same thing with BD - you are so right Caliope - the conflict of Queen of the Damned was about, well, the Queen of the Damned and the destruction she would rain down on the world if she wasn't stopped. She wasn't the proper "leader" for the vampires. She was narrow-minded and hadn't changed her stance in thousands of years. Times needed to change.

I felt the same about the Volturi, and I can't believe that Meyer wouldn't go there. I think sometimes when we write, especially if we are new writers, we get so focused on what WE want to do that we don't let the story evolve a little itself.

I just went through this over the last couple of days writing my own story and I found myself in a Twilight dilemma - I was so concentrating on one aspect of the story that I drew a blank about what my other major character was going through. I so wanted the two characters to go in a certain direction I forgot that I had to give them a real journey. My one major character was becoming 2D. I guess it's normal as you write and then you have to go back and edit. But it really got me thinking and I got out of that rut and I'm back on track.

Why didn't Meyer do the same? Who was her editor? I mean, aren't these people supposed to see problems like this and correct them?

I guess I've asked that a hundred times, right?

I still say she could have played the chess game, the Volturi would still be stubborn and want to kill Nessie and then, BAM, battle and Volturi are taken down, and a new day dawns for the vampires.


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  #54  
Old January 7th, 2009, 1:40 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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HAHAHA - someone should put that on a bumper sticker. "Chess: It's fun to play, boring to watch!"


Oh wow, I just thought of something - what about all the other half-vampires in South America that Alice and Jasper discovered? The Volturi are probably going to pay them a visit too, maybe start some sort of global power struggle the likes of which vampire kind hasn't seen before.

Ooooh, if only someone would write a real epic showdown like in Queen of the Damned...... This has so much potential for awesome it pains me to see it unrealized.

Yeah.. I feel like SM had the best chance already for an epic showdown at the end of BD. She had gathered the most talented vampires together and matched them up against the volturi. Then we had bella with her supershield which I really liked btw, and if I remember correctly- each of the "good" vampires were already picking off their targets in the volturi guard ( tanya- caius, edward-demetri, kate- jane, one of the romanian vampires- alec). It was being set up to be a great match up on multiple levels. Emmett could have battled felix. Maybe Rosalie could have taken out renata. It kind of reminded me of xmen actually

It's too bad we never got to see any of them battle it out in hand to hand combat, so to speak. I know SM wanted a happy ending, but I still think we could have had a happy ending even with a fight. With bella's shield, the cullens did have the upper hand because of ben and zafira. So if, the cullens and the volturi fought it out- maybe a few of the good vampires would inevitably get killed- but as long as bella, edward, jacob, and the cullens make it- that would still be a happy ending- kind of like in hp where lupin and tonks get killed among others, but the trio and hagrid survive. I wonder who would have taken aro down? Maybe alice or bella!

I just hope she writes another book after BD that continues the story. If not, I hope we get some kind of appendix where we get a tasteful love scene and a battle scene. I still enjoyed BD, but I am sure she would have gotten a lot less complaints and left readers much more satisfied if she included those two things in the book.



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  #55  
Old January 7th, 2009, 3:30 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

About taking the Volturi down. I don't feel there is a major need for all of them to be killed, just at least some kind of battle where enough are killed so that they feel that they need to flee or get destroyed and don't dare ruling again. That would make much more sense to me than Volturi leaving and just coming back again, terrible "climax"


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  #56  
Old January 7th, 2009, 11:43 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Originally Posted by ladykrystyna View Post

I felt the same about the Volturi, and I can't believe that Meyer wouldn't go there. I think sometimes when we write, especially if we are new writers, we get so focused on what WE want to do that we don't let the story evolve a little itself.

I just went through this over the last couple of days writing my own story and I found myself in a Twilight dilemma - I was so concentrating on one aspect of the story that I drew a blank about what my other major character was going through. I so wanted the two characters to go in a certain direction I forgot that I had to give them a real journey. My one major character was becoming 2D. I guess it's normal as you write and then you have to go back and edit. But it really got me thinking and I got out of that rut and I'm back on track.

Why didn't Meyer do the same? Who was her editor? I mean, aren't these people supposed to see problems like this and correct them?

I guess I've asked that a hundred times, right?
Well, not all new writers are like that. For me, it's the opposite way. So many times, it feels as if it is my characters who are writing the story. Sometimes, it's almost as if they are taking my hand in theirs (like in pre-school, where your nusery teacher helps you to shape your first 'A'?) and are writing for me. Do I make any sense?

Perhaps the editor was more fixated on the grammer/spelling errors or whatever then the plot points/holes and character developements. Whatever the case is, there are three words I want to say to Meyer: CHANGE YOUR EDITOR!

Another thing I've noticed, is that Meyer was too rushed with the series. 4 books in 3 years? No go. Citing JKR again (I notice I do that a lot ), she got out 7 books in 17 years. Sure, it kept the people waiting, but it's worth waiting for, because at the end of the day, it isn't quantity or speed that counts, it's quality.


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Old January 7th, 2009, 6:48 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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actually, I think more should've died, I mean, it was a war! But you can tell there were lots of casualties and everything. I guess it was ok that Jake got his bones broken but the final battle made me really annoyed
Call me crazy -- I actually liked that this was a gooey happy ending. I almost expected people to die in HP but in Twilight I was quite content to have them part happily in the sunset. I'd LOVE to see a story about Nessie and Jacob and how the Cullens/Pack are doing. Perhaps the Volturi come back, perhaps groups of covens decide to revolt and the Cullens get trapped in the middle, perhaps the Volturi want to irradicate the pack..the possibilities are endless.

I like happy endings. So many times in life we don't get happy endings so it was nice to feel all gooey and gooshie about this. I'm not sure how to describe it. I would have been furious had they killed Nessie/Edward/Jacob or ANY of the Cullens, the series would feel so incomplete without each contributing personality. (even Rosalie grumble grumble)

thoughts?


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Old January 7th, 2009, 7:27 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Originally Posted by MC2456 View Post
Well, not all new writers are like that. For me, it's the opposite way. So many times, it feels as if it is my characters who are writing the story. Sometimes, it's almost as if they are taking my hand in theirs (like in pre-school, where your nusery teacher helps you to shape your first 'A'?) and are writing for me. Do I make any sense?
I definitely know what you mean except it hasn't gotten that major yet. I just sort of think, "wait, that character would NEVER do that!" and if even me, an extremely amateur 14 year old girl can have the sense to think that, Meyer, a fully grown woman who has already written a few published book and has the help of her editors should be able to do so too.

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Perhaps the editor was more fixated on the grammer/spelling errors or whatever then the plot points/holes and character developements. Whatever the case is, there are three words I want to say to Meyer: CHANGE YOUR EDITOR!
I rarely pay attention to grammar and spelling, but I heard that even grammar and spelling was a bit off in places

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Another thing I've noticed, is that Meyer was too rushed with the series. 4 books in 3 years? No go. Citing JKR again (I notice I do that a lot ), she got out 7 books in 17 years. Sure, it kept the people waiting, but it's worth waiting for, because at the end of the day, it isn't quantity or speed that counts, it's quality.
Well, I wouldn't say rushed. Putting 3 years into 4 books is what i call drawing stuff out longer than necessary. I'm kind of guilty of making my stuff go too fast, but whatever. Anyways, JKR only really has one book per year.

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Call me crazy -- I actually liked that this was a gooey happy ending. I almost expected people to die in HP but in Twilight I was quite content to have them part happily in the sunset. I'd LOVE to see a story about Nessie and Jacob and how the Cullens/Pack are doing. Perhaps the Volturi come back, perhaps groups of covens decide to revolt and the Cullens get trapped in the middle, perhaps the Volturi want to irradicate the pack..the possibilities are endless.

I like happy endings. So many times in life we don't get happy endings so it was nice to feel all gooey and gooshie about this. I'm not sure how to describe it. I would have been furious had they killed Nessie/Edward/Jacob or ANY of the Cullens, the series would feel so incomplete without each contributing personality. (even Rosalie grumble grumble)

thoughts?
I knwo it's slightly hypocritical for me to say this since I love fantasy because it's an escape from the real world, but the thing is that books should emulate the real world except that there are things that can be changed, like in Harry Potter, people can use magic. and in Twilight, there are vampires. Just because there are vampires in this world doesn't mean that if i suddenly get a boyfriend everything will end happily ever after with no casualties because of vampires. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but I certainly do not like completely happy gooey endings. If there wasn't Nessie, at least we knew that Bella gave up something major but nope, Meyer is willing to completely contradict her own universe just for Bella. I'm not religious or anything, but if there was a God, realistically, God would not smile upon me as much as Meyer smiles upon Bella and Edward.


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  #59  
Old January 7th, 2009, 7:35 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Originally Posted by Voldemorts8thHorcrux View Post


I knwo it's slightly hypocritical for me to say this since I love fantasy because it's an escape from the real world, but the thing is that books should emulate the real world except that there are things that can be changed, like in Harry Potter, people can use magic. and in Twilight, there are vampires. Just because there are vampires in this world doesn't mean that if i suddenly get a boyfriend everything will end happily ever after with no casualties because of vampires. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but I certainly do not like completely happy gooey endings. If there wasn't Nessie, at least we knew that Bella gave up something major but nope, Meyer is willing to completely contradict her own universe just for Bella. I'm not religious or anything, but if there was a God, realistically, God would not smile upon me as much as Meyer smiles upon Bella and Edward.
That's my major issue with the way things ended, too. Bella was supposed to face consequences when she gave up her mortality - like having kids and seeing her parents - and she ended up not having like any because Smeyer wanted Bella to be special and for everything to be perfect. It just really bothers me.


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Old January 7th, 2009, 7:43 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

^exactly! Meyer needs to realize that there are ways to have a happy ending without EVERYTHING being perfect and wonderful.


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