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#161
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Re: Feminism: Definitions and Opinions
I can't speak for other women, but if I caught someone taking pictures up my skirt... it wouldn't be pretty. I also think you're overestimating how much men are intimidated by other men. It'snot obvious from your story if the husband of the woman was there when the drunk was flirting with her but it's possible the drunk was given a verbal warning first, thought he was the tougher guy and proceeded anyway. Since it's considered "unmanly" to back away from a fight, men are more likely to get beat up, as opposed to women who know their limits and run.
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#162
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Re: Feminism: Definitions and Opinions
Her husband?? A woman should not need to be with a man in order to be safe. The possibility of getting beaten up should surely not be the only thing that deters a man from treating a woman like an object. If that's the only thing that deters a man from taking photos up a woman's skirt, then there's something seriously wrong with that guy.
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But I'd like to think that most people have the decency not to invade other people's privacy. I'd like to think most people have the decency not to use other people as sex objects. I'd like to think that the law isn't the only thing stopping most people from committing murder, rape, robbery etc. So, I'd also like to think that the law or seeing a muscly man isn't the only thing stopping most people from taking photos up a woman's skirt. I'd like to think that common courtesy and conscience play a part for most people. Quote:
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If this story is true, this drunk must have been particularly persistent and/or particularly drunk. Question - hypothetical - if the guy had been harassing a single woman and not taking no for an answer, and the woman, rather than a husband, decked the drunk, would the attitude have been that he "got what he deserved"? Just wondering, hypothetically.
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![]() Pic by julvett at deviantart http://julvett.deviantart.com/gallery/2984632 "Relationships are like glass; sometimes it's better to leave them broken than to hurt yourself trying to put them back together." Anonymous "Like this one time I sort of ran over this girl on her bike. It was the most traumatising event of my life and she’s trying to make it about her leg. Like my pain meant nothing." - Cordelia; Buffy the Vampire Slayer S1Ep11. ![]() |
#163
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Re: Feminism: Definitions and Opinions
Women should lobby to have their skirts registered as corporations.
Then politicians will be falling over themselves to pass laws protecting them
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#164
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Re: Feminism: Definitions and Opinions
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Yeah, and there's a price to be paid whenever the law gets broken (assuming the person gets caught and successfully prosecuted). And sometimes it's simply the price a person pays whenever the unwritten rules of society gets broken. The price of which just might be a bloody nose. It does happen. Quote:
Are you kidding? I've seen that before. People laugh seeing that! And yes, the drunk would have it coming. (Bartender usually "mans" up if the guy gets pushy after that)
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All fighters are pig-headed some way or another: some part of them always thinks they know better than you about something. Truth is: even if they're wrong, even if that one thing is going to be the ruin of them, if you can beat that last bad out of them... they ain't fighters at all. ![]() ---Eddie Scrap-Iron Dupris (Million Dollar Baby)
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#165
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Re: Feminism: Definitions and Opinions
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So I think the guy's motive was not "these women won't defend themselves," but rather, "well this is easy." Last edited by canismajoris; October 21st, 2014 at 3:21 am. |
#166
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Re: Feminism: Definitions and Opinions
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And do most women want to be seen as sex objects? Really? Most women want to be seen as sexual beings. Not sex objects. Seeing a woman as a sex object means that she is just there for the gratification of the man, that her feelings are irrelevant. And I am pretty sure that most women do not want to have their underwear photographed without their permission. And is the reality that most men do not respect women? Is the reality that most men would assault a woman or take secret nude pictures of a woman if they thought they'd get away with it? I do not think that most men are so entitled and dangerous. Quote:
Then, if one is to leave aside the potential for violence, would the same apply if a woman was zooming her camera on a guy in his swimming trunks for example? Or, up a loose pair of shorts? It's on public display, after all. Then, what of paparazzi who lie on pavements to take photos up celebrities' skirts? Is that also publicly exposed? Even when her underwear is only exposed to the pavement??
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![]() Pic by julvett at deviantart http://julvett.deviantart.com/gallery/2984632 "Relationships are like glass; sometimes it's better to leave them broken than to hurt yourself trying to put them back together." Anonymous "Like this one time I sort of ran over this girl on her bike. It was the most traumatising event of my life and she’s trying to make it about her leg. Like my pain meant nothing." - Cordelia; Buffy the Vampire Slayer S1Ep11. ![]() Last edited by FurryDice; October 21st, 2014 at 10:05 pm. |
#167
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Re: Feminism: Definitions and Opinions
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Well without getting too graphic, I suspect a paparazzo doing that is probably hoping there won't be any underwear. And I think that's clearly invasive and wrong, but as I alluded to before, the relationship between the press and celebrities has gotten just... really weird and dark. Invading the privacy of celebrities is highly profitable, evidently, and as consumers that's really really the problem we should be thinking about. It's hard to condemn behaviors that we (as a group) would seem to desire. |
#168
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Re: Feminism: Definitions and Opinions
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Sex sells. If it isn't appealing then it won't. I believe that most women want to be seen as sexy. The cosmetics, the clothing, etc...all that which the more extreme feminists despise, is that which many women aspire to; to be sexually appealing. And I don't know any woman that doesn't want that.
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All fighters are pig-headed some way or another: some part of them always thinks they know better than you about something. Truth is: even if they're wrong, even if that one thing is going to be the ruin of them, if you can beat that last bad out of them... they ain't fighters at all. ![]() ---Eddie Scrap-Iron Dupris (Million Dollar Baby)
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#169
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Re: Feminism: Definitions and Opinions
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#170
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Re: Feminism: Definitions and Opinions
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I recall a guy I knew who firmly objected when I said "A dirty mind is a terrible thing to waste." I told him it was natural. But he even objected when a man thought that way with his wife. He called it "objectification." I called it "keeping that marriage bed interesting" and "keeping her smiling."
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All fighters are pig-headed some way or another: some part of them always thinks they know better than you about something. Truth is: even if they're wrong, even if that one thing is going to be the ruin of them, if you can beat that last bad out of them... they ain't fighters at all. ![]() ---Eddie Scrap-Iron Dupris (Million Dollar Baby)
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#171
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Re: Feminism: Definitions and Opinions
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Would it be a mitigating factor for a burglar if the homeowner forgot to lock their front door? Didn't have an alarm, or forgot to set it? Would it earn the burglar a reduced sentence, because the homeowner wasn't careful? Then why on earth are there such mitigating factors in sex crimes? By the way, let me say that I understand that this case was thrown out because the individual in question hadn't broken any laws. I'm speaking about sex-related crimes in general. Quote:
And here's a question - why is there no demand for stolen nude pictures or paparazzi nude photos of male celebrities??? Quote:
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![]() Pic by julvett at deviantart http://julvett.deviantart.com/gallery/2984632 "Relationships are like glass; sometimes it's better to leave them broken than to hurt yourself trying to put them back together." Anonymous "Like this one time I sort of ran over this girl on her bike. It was the most traumatising event of my life and she’s trying to make it about her leg. Like my pain meant nothing." - Cordelia; Buffy the Vampire Slayer S1Ep11. ![]() |
#172
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Re: Feminism: Definitions and Opinions
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I think we get so caught up in arguing about where blame belongs that we ignore the reality that a lot of crimes can be prevented in the first place by doing exactly what you mentioned--preparing security measures for your property, providing for personal defense, and generally being mindful of risks. Failing to do so doesn't mitigate the guilt of a criminal, but it does peg you as naive. Quote:
Ultimately it may boil down to two things: First, our (American) society's squeamishness about male nudity in general, as expressed in television and film. For every shot of a man fully nude on screen in mainstream works, there are probably hours and hours (and hours) of footage of nude women. Why is that exactly? It's not even the disparity between the sexes itself that seems odd to me, it's the almost implausible dearth of men stripping down on film that's strange. We don't have much of an appetite for gentleman parts. Second, and I haven't researched this (and don't plan to), so it's just a guess, but in the recent photo hacking situation, I'd bet that the majority of the women victimized have never appeared nude on screen or in photo shoots. So putting those two factors together, it isn't only that there's demand for nude women and not much for nude men, nor that there's a market for nude images of female celebrities, but even worse, that there's a subculture for obtaining private photos of those female celebrities who specifically don't want their naked bodies out in public. It may be disturbing in those terms, but really I think even average people who know intellectually that it's wrong are likely to be curious, at the very least. Considering how widespread these recent images became, clearly it wasn't only scumbags who were viewing them. |
#173
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Re: Feminism: Definitions and Opinions
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Better to compare an open window. Not illegal to turn and glance. Quote:
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All fighters are pig-headed some way or another: some part of them always thinks they know better than you about something. Truth is: even if they're wrong, even if that one thing is going to be the ruin of them, if you can beat that last bad out of them... they ain't fighters at all. ![]() ---Eddie Scrap-Iron Dupris (Million Dollar Baby)
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#174
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Re: Feminism: Definitions and Opinions
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This is why what I said earlier about context applies even here. It's not enough to look at individual actions and say that the situation could have been prevented had the victim acted differently. I'm sure that in many cases it could have. But the bigger issue, the context still remains and it's not addressed by looking at each case individually. Even if all the women were to take precautions and for example never go out after dark- well, okay, but what about the fact that women are more likely to be asaulted and murdered by men they know than by strangers? There are underlying issues which the "victim-blaming" discourse ignores and these issues are always going to be there unless we deal with the gender inequality. It's sweeping the real problem under the rug if we only focus on individual actions (and I'm not saying you're doing this, I'm just trying to explain why sex crimes are not the same as leaving your house unlocked). |
#175
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Re: Feminism: Definitions and Opinions
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And the idea that women should always be available to men is also perpetuated by women. The various sex-strikes are predicated on the belief that women have sex only to please men rather than for themselves.
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A patriot is someone who wants the best for his country, including the best laws and the best ideals. It's something other people should call you -- you shouldn't call yourself that. People who call themselves patriots are usually liars. -- Donald Woods You got what anybody gets . . . You got a lifetime. -- Death of the Endless |
#176
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Re: Feminism: Definitions and Opinions
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#177
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Re: Feminism: Definitions and Opinions
We could have a discussion about whether this is always an individual choice, or it's what women have come to believe is expected both through cultural cues and dating/couple relationships. It's not always clear what motivates behavior, even to the people involved.
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![]() People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff... ....I miss David Tennant.... |
#178
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Re: Feminism: Definitions and Opinions
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Whereas my opinion is that if someone is such a frothing at the mouth wild animal that they can't restrain themselves from assaulting a woman because they see a bit of thigh, then that person is not fit to be out in public. Quote:
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However, it cannot be ignored that there are also men who seem to see women as objects for their pleasure. Sex offenders. Men who go on killing sprees because women turned them down. Quote:
How true. Sigh.
__________________
![]() Pic by julvett at deviantart http://julvett.deviantart.com/gallery/2984632 "Relationships are like glass; sometimes it's better to leave them broken than to hurt yourself trying to put them back together." Anonymous "Like this one time I sort of ran over this girl on her bike. It was the most traumatising event of my life and she’s trying to make it about her leg. Like my pain meant nothing." - Cordelia; Buffy the Vampire Slayer S1Ep11. ![]() |
#179
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Re: Feminism: Definitions and Opinions
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You're conflating this particular issue with genuine felonies, and you are so wrong for doing it. ![]() But you're not stealing anything. And your analogy doesn't convince the "other side" of the argument. It doesn't hold water. What's being stolen according to the law? Case thrown out.
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All fighters are pig-headed some way or another: some part of them always thinks they know better than you about something. Truth is: even if they're wrong, even if that one thing is going to be the ruin of them, if you can beat that last bad out of them... they ain't fighters at all. ![]() ---Eddie Scrap-Iron Dupris (Million Dollar Baby)
Last edited by Midnightsfire; October 27th, 2014 at 5:51 pm. |
#180
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Re: Feminism: Definitions and Opinions
And that was the end of this thread.
If any of you wonders why, consider this: *lock*
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