View Single Post
Old November 26th, 2012, 4:41 pm
Goddess_Clio  Female.gif Goddess_Clio is offline
Seventh Year
Join Date: 28th September 2011
Location: The pirate ship Revenge
Age: 35
Posts: 1,853
Re: The Millenium Trilogy - Stieg Larsson

Originally Posted by Wab View Post
No, sexual assault is always unjustifiable. Or do you honestly believe that some people deserve it?
Wow, thanks for that loaded question...

I believe that Lisbeth felt 100% justified in her actions. Do I believe she should have done what she did to Bjurman? In a perfect world, no. In a perfect world Bjurman wouldn't have raped Lisbeth to begin with. In a perfect world, SAPO wouldn't have been there to coerce the authorities in to ignoring Zalanchenko's abuses of Lisbeth's mother. In a perfect world Lisbeth wouldn't have to take things into her own hands because the governmental bodies in place to protect its citizens' rights would have been there to protect hers, too.

But Lisbeth didn't live in a perfect world, she lived in one where she was the perfect victim and she did the only things she could do to protect herself.

I would also like to direct you to my response to LyannaS in the same post you quoted me in:
Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio View Post
Knowing that we live in a society where this kind of "eye for an eye" retribution can be just as punishable by the law as the initial assault, what Lisbeth did to Bjurman was, in the eyes of the law, wrong. Her actions ultimately didn't stop him from seeking vengeance on her again, it just made her feel better and helped her to achieve her goal of never having to see Bjurman again and finding a way to free herself from remaining a ward of the state.

On an emotional level, though, I absolutely agree with LyannaS. I don't feel bad for Bjurman at all; he got what he deserved. He not only took advantage of a girl he believed to be mentally handicapped, he sexually tortured her for hours and hours. As LyannaS points out, too, he did get off relatively lightly compared to what Lisbeth went through.
And this quote in response to you, Wab:

Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio View Post
In real life I, personally, say going to the authorities rather than seeking vengeance by giving what you got is not the way to go. Bjurman's assault on Lisbeth was so totally brutal that I find it hard to believe that any person in a position of authority would believe that it was anything other than a sexual assault. In the Millenium Trilogy, though, it's not that simple for Lisbeth. If she had gone to the authorities all that whole have happened was that she'd go back on SAPO's radar and they'd swoop in and hush the whole incident up or spin it so she's the bad guy so that the illegal arrangement set up to protect Zalanchenko doesn't collapse and SAPO arent' exposed to an investigation themselves.

In terms of the information revealed in books 2 and 3 regarding Lisbeth's backstory, Lisbeth's action against Bjurman was the only action she could have taken. That's why I accept her assault on Bjurman even though I don't agree that that would have been the right action to take if this had happened in the real world rather than a fictional one. It was the only action for her that would guarantee Bjurman would no longer be a part of her life.
And this quote:

Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio View Post
the comments in [brackets] I have added in this post:
I'm not saying her assault against Bjurman was justifiable in terms of the real world but to her [after learning about her backstory in books 2 and 3 and the crimes committed against her] it was the only thing she [felt she] could do to guarantee her independance from him. As said on page, I believe, who would have believed her had she gone to the authorities? [They (SAPO) had laid the groundwork for her being untrustworthy, a liar, insane, unstable, etc. They turned her into a victim who wouldn't have been believed even when she told the truth.] The only time she would have had a case against him was the night it happened and it's very realistic that she would not have reported it. [Not only do assault victims often not report their assaults, Lisbeth herself has a justifiable mistrust of authorities herself; she spent her childhood trying to convince someone, anyone, that her father was beating her mother (to the point where she was hospitalized and suffered sever brain damage) but they completely ignored her and then locked her up in a mental institution for trying to tell the truth. Her experience is that no authority figure, be it the police or the government, is willing to help her or believe her in any way so she has to take things into her own hands, and even when she does that she's punished.] After that it was her word against his [Bjurman's] and he's an apparently upstanding lawyer just trying to help her while she's a girl who spent four years in a mental institution for, as far as is publically know, attempting to murder her father for no good reason [when in reality she had a very good, noble reason] and has a criminal record including drug related arrests, drunkenness and assault.

In terms of reality her assault [on Bjurman] was criminal retaliation and assult, I agree. In terms of fiction, her assault against Bjurman is poetic justice. The Millenium trilogy is fiction, not reality.
Keep in mind, please, that we're not discussing the real world, we're discussing the world accord to the Millenium Trilogy and that world is pretty ****ed up. In that world, every deck was stacked against Lisbeth. Every hand she played she was going to lose; SAPO was there to make sure of that. The only options she had were to continue to allow SAPO to victimize her or to fight fire with fire. She chose to later. If she had chosen the former our discussions would be along the lines of "Why did she continue to let herself be victimized like that? Why didn't she stand up for herself? Why isn't she reporting Bjurman? Why wasn't she trying to expose the injustices perpetrated against her?"

The thing is, she couldn't report Bjurman. She was the "socially handicapped, retarded former mental patient" who tried to kill her father when she was twelve years old (for beating her mother so badly he gave her a permanent mental damage herself, and all because Zalanchenko was a political asset and too valuable to prosecute - he had carte blanche to do anything he wanted and SAPO would sweep it under the rug). If she had reported Bjurman's assault it was her word against his that he was the perpetrator and SAPO was on Bjurman's side to garauntee that he would get away with it every time.

Keep in mind, also, that Lisbeth's initial plan didn't involve getting raped or retaliating in kind; her initial plan was to film a repeat performance of his inital assault on her (the one in his office) and use that as blackmail against him. She didn't begin this course of action with the plan to assault Bjurman in the same way he assaulted her; her inital plan involved no violent retaliation on her part.

Originally Posted by Wab View Post
And if a man sought revenge against a woman in the same way would you defend his actions?
I believe that, like Lisbeth, that man would feel justified in his actions.

If you want to discuss my real world (i.e. not a situation out of a piece of fiction) views on this subject, owl me. It'll be a short discussion.

My defense of Lisbeth's actions has always been within in the framework of whether she feels justified or not and has been within the framework of this fictional world. When I have been discussing my real world opinions or views I have stated so.

"I could have been in politics 'cause I've always been a big spender."
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links