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Old August 20th, 2008, 4:15 pm
wingardium713  Undisclosed.gif wingardium713 is offline
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Join Date: 03rd July 2008
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.8

Quote:
Originally Posted by ignisia View Post
I think the relationship, when it came to potions, was symbiotic. I agree with those who say that Lily would never copy off Severus without giving credit. But there's "copied off" and then there's "given helpful tips". If Severus offered her help, Lily would probably accept it. And should Severus need help, Lily would be willing to offer her advice as well.
I agree completely. Students helping each other is fine in my book. Not only does it help the one student learn (which is the primary purpose of school, isn't it?), but it also tends to help the student doing the helping. Most people find that they understand a concept better if they have to help somebody else learn it. I think that Lily would accept help/advice from Snape when they were friends.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ignisia View Post
It's actually quite common for help to be given without the Potionmaker revealing who helped with what. In PoA, Neville didn't mention that Hermione helped him with his Shrinking Solution, and Draco didn't sing Harry's and Ron's praises for preparing his ingredients in the same book. .
LOL Well, Snape already knew Hermione was helping Neville and Ron/Harry weren't exactly doing a praise-worthy job of helping Draco (so Snape made Ron give Draco his own roots...again, Snape knew about the help so Draco didn't have to give credit). But, I do get your point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ignisia View Post
Nor did Harry mention that he would have added the wrong ingredient to his Strengthening Solution in OotP if Hermione hadn't called him on it. In fact, Hermione corrects a lot of Harry's and Ron's homework, but they don't put a tiny line on the bottom saying "Edited by Hermione Granger". The students seem to look out for each other on little things like that without credit being given.
Yep. And I think all those things are fine (some might disagree with me, though). It helps everybody to learn. I think Hermione was right not to let people copy directly off of her and to make them at least try to do the assignment on their own first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ignisia View Post
It's huge things, like Harry's use of all the HBP's instructions without crediting him, that seem to blur the line, and not small things like "use a quart of troll phlegm instead".
I agree. Harry stepped over the line with the use of the HBP potions book. If he had shown the book to Slughorn and said that he planned on continuing to use the HBP's modified recipes, I think he would have been on the right side of things. Who knows, Slughorn himself might have learned something from reading the book and the entire class would have benifited.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ignisia View Post
I think it very likely that Lily and Severus both worked together on Potions. Slughorn didn't sing both their praises in HBP for nothing. He was foreshadowing a relationship, one that Potions could certainly have strengthened.
I would agree that they did this for the first 5 years, but I think that the relationship was so fractured at the end of their 5th year that Lily would have found a new potions partner for 6th and 7th year. If Lily and Snape had have continued to be potions partner, I think that Snape would have been less wounded by the loss of friendship than he was. It seemed like that the Mudblood indicident was the end of their friendship. I think that they were always cordial to each other, but I don't think that they were ever close again. If they had gotten close again, SWM wouldn't be his worst memory, in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver ink pot View Post
The progression of the Elder Wand is:

Gregorovitch-Grindelwald-Dumbledore-(almost Snape)-Draco-(Voldemort in possession only)-Harry
Pretty much. I think it's more like:
Gregorovitch-Grindelwald-Dumbledore-Draco-(appears to be Snape) - (Voldemort in possession only)-Harry


Quote:
Originally Posted by silver ink pot View Post
Dumbledore says in King's Cross that he meant for Snape to get the wand. Whether he meant that he wanted Snape to give it to Voldemort as some sort of gift, or whether he meant for Snape to be killed by Voldemort, is debatable. But either way, the progression of Dumbledore's plan was that Snape should have been Master of the Elder Wand, but Draco messed up the plan.
I think that Dumbledore intended for the power of the Elder Wand to be destroyed when he died because nobody defeated him in a duel (just as Harry was not defeated when he was AK'ed because he wasn't dueling. Plus, Snape was following Dumbedore's instruction so how could he be defeating Dumbledore in a duel?). I do think that Dumbledore realized that he was putting Snape at risk of death by giving the impression that Snape was the Master of the Elder Wand, but I don't think he ever intended for Snape to be the actual Master of the Elder Wand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver ink pot View Post
And Draco also stays alive because Voldemort thinks Snape is the Master and never thinks about Draco. Voldie thinks death is the only way to "defeat" a wizard, even though Gregorovitch and Grindelwald survived stunning and a duel respectively.
Even if Voldemort had figured out that Draco was the Master of the Elder Wand, it would have been too late. By the time that Voldemort figured out that killing Grindelwald and stealing the wand from Dumbledore's grave was not sufficient to make him the Master of the Elder Wand, Draco had already lost the Elder Wand to Harry (Harry became Master before the wand was stolen from the grave). Voldemort would have just killed Draco instead of Snape if he'd figured out that Draco not Snape had become the Master that night on the Astronomy tower. I don't think that Voldemort would have been able to make the leap from Draco to Harry without it being explained to him. Harry did not take the Elder Wand from Draco and Voldemort doesn't seem to understand wandlore that well. He might not even be aware of the exact circumstances under which Draco lost his wand. Why would he care at that point in the story? He was under the impression that stealing the wand from Dumbledore was his next course of action after Malfoy Manor. So, in the end, the Snape-is-the-Master-of-the-Elder-Wand bluff saved Draco. I think Voldemort would still have been oblivious to the fact that Harry was the Master when he started to duel him.

There are other elements to Snape's death that are important though, in my opinion. If Snape hadn't have died in the Shrieking Shack, it would have been difficult for him to have passed on the memories to Harry...when else would he have had the chance to sneak back into the castle after he'd escaped the first time? So, that is why, in my opinion, it is important for Voldemort to think that Snape is the Master of the Edler Wand (for the memories, not to hide the fact that Harry is the Master). Still, I don't think Dumbledore could have planned any of that. In fact, it seems kind of risky to set up the Snape-is-the-Master-of-the-Elder-Wand bluff when Snape is also the Keeper-of-the-Plan.


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