View Single Post
  #11  
Old July 2nd, 2008, 6:03 pm
wickedwickedboy's Avatar
wickedwickedboy  Undisclosed.gif wickedwickedboy is offline
Lycanthrope
 
Join Date: 17th December 2005
Location: Running with the Werewolves
Posts: 9,427
Re: Snape and Lily: Joint Character Analysis v.3

Quote:
Originally Posted by kittling View Post
I take the phrase ‘with that indefinable air of having been well cared for, even adored,’ to be about something other that nice, good quality well kept clothes, to me that would be definable! To me it is about something else and its hard to explain with out just reiterating JKR’s line – which probably would not be very helpful of me

I believe, and there is both anecdotal & scientific grounding to the idea, that people are able to spot others with similar background; by this I am not simply referring to class, or financial status, or geographic links or religion – it also works for family experiences, such as divorced parents, bereavement from parents or siblings, neglectful childhoods, experiences of abuse, the sort of thing you just wouldn’t expect someone to be able to tell about you.

There is actually an experiment you can do that shows this in action, I‘ve been part of it and the results really surprised me. Simply get a room full of an even number of strangers (it mean otherwise cos someone will get left out ) and ask them to get into pairs without talking. Once everyone is in a pair they should see what they have in common. Then you repeat the exercise only this time you ask the pairs to join with another pair. Again once all the pairs have joined with another pair they should see what they have in common.

This is an experiment that is often run by lecturers in psychology, sociology & other allied disciplines with new classes, and repeatedly comes up with the same result. Al the pairs & then all the groups find they have a great deal in common and normally things something of the ‘surely someone can’t tell by looking at me’ variety.

This is what I meant; Lily & James both came from loving caring background, and I think this is also reflected in how they both seem to have an easy knack of making friends. Something Severus did not have (although your point about their basic ideologies, viewpoints and outlook also holds true and would be impacted by the things I am refering to!)
I agree with this, there is one point I would question, but I will owl you about it since it includes James.

Quote:
Ok I agree with much of your post but I feel compelled to say that Lily & the marauders weren’t friends until the 6th year the earliest. I in no way disagree that Lily had lots of friends in her house and I’m sure that she was at least civil to James & Sirius most of the time but I don’t think canon supports much more than that. It is possible that she got on with Remus – but this is the wrong thread for that Obviously by sometime in the 7th year they were friends – she wouldn’t be going out with James otherwise.
I'll include my response to this in the owl as well.

Quote:
I agree – I just think that anger + flirting is more encouraging that plain anger; also I’m really not sure Snape would see that there was hope of saving the friendship once apologising failed. I very much doubt he’s seen examples of friendships/ any relationships where able to contain such upheaval and survive (which I think is sad )
But that was the point I was trying to make. I believe there was no hope of salvaging the friendship at that point because there was only anger as you pointed out. I agree with you that there would have been anger + some kind of friendly gesture if Lily had been thinking of Snape in terms of continuing their friendship. I believe there was not because the issues Lily had with Snape were so fundamentally important to Lily, the entire friendship turned on those issues. In my judgment, that was not the case with her anger + flirting response. (I'll go into this more in my owl. ).

Quote:
Ok other than my previous comment about Lily & James not being friends at this point, I would also say that imo she found his behaviour in that scene despicable and she was very clear about it, she didn’t end the friendship (because there wasn’t one to end imo) but James changed & Snape didn’t.
My response will have to go in the owl here too. .

Quote:
Well I think that his ‘predilection to follow Voldemort that the group Snape was hanging around advocated in addition to their blood prejudice views’ as you put it, was the problem. From my readings of the book I don’t remember Lily commenting on his use of curses (& I am sticking to your definition at this point – promise ) as TGW has said before (at least I think it was her ) I am sure that if Lily had been aware of Snape using them surely she would have mentioned that as opposed to just mentioning what Mulciber & Avery were doing? I would have expected something along the lines of ‘Look at the influence their having on you! your using dark magic too Sev’ or at lest some mention of it but I can nothing of any mention by Lily of him using dark magic.
I respect your view, but Lily didn't bring up anything directly that Snape had done, imo. I feel she spoke only in terms of Snape's friends having a bad influence on him. The only reason I feel that she openly spoke about his calling other people Mudblood was because he had done it to her and she was pointing out that she saw herself the same as others, not distinctive in the way Snape appeared to be looking at it. Lily also said, 'you've chosen your path and I've chosen mine'. I feel that is in essence indicating that his view on things is totally different than hers and she was basing that on the things she knew he was doing and saying when he was not around her. I believe that in their previous conversations she had stuck to speaking in terms of the influence of his friends because she was trying to convince herself that he behaved and spoke as he did when he was not around her do to their influence. That is why I feel she said "I can't pretend any more", meaning it was not just the influence of Snape's friends that was making him do and say things, but now she understood that he was behaving and speaking as he did when he was not with her because that was also a part of his true persona (his beliefs, viewpoint and outlook.) That is why I feel she concluded with accusing him of planning to join Voldemort like all of his friends, not under their influence, but of his own accord (although I feel she realized they would all influence one another to some degree).


__________________
Sponsored Links