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Old January 26th, 2008, 5:44 pm
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Re: Snape and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy View Post
I agree it would not be different action wise, but it would make Dumbledore look better. Also it would make Snape look more intelligent. But I do not assume something so important to Dumbledore's character would be left out of the story. It makes him look really bad to have done that. I don't think defaming his character for things he didn't do would be what JKR wanted because he already looked bad enough for what he'd done to Harry (not to mention Moody and others). So I think it was more to show the lengths Dumbledore was willing to go to forward his greater good plan. Using Snape wasn't a terrible choice of 'fall guy' per se because his attitude toward and treatment of Harry had already blemished his character quite a bit. So those who read the series in the way I did, felt Snape deserved it. But that does not let Dumbledore off the hook, it was still wrong, imo.
It was because it was left out and there is ambiguity regarding what could have happened, that I think there are so many problems. She could have made just Voldemort go to the tomb; we see this through Harry’ eyes actually. So we could have just seen Voldemort gliding and hissing all over the place and breaking open the tomb and taking out the wand. Snape need not have been there at all.

Then it would be easier for us to believe that Snape did not know, Dumbledore did not need to tell him because he thought the wand was safe (there is another problem with this as well; Snape would have been very familiar with Dumbledore’s wand and seeing it in Voldemort’s hand would have raised questions; not to Voldemort, Snape would have got killed, but he would have rushed to Dumbledore’s portrait. What would the portrait tell him?)

So we have to assume Snape did not know, Dumbledore’s wand would not be recognized among other things to believe that Dumbledore did not intend for Snape to die. Or that he was negligent with respect to Snape, because of the overall tension with the war. Both I think would lower Dumbledore in my eyes.

But Jo brings in Snape along with Voldemort and then sends him back and does not stop there. She tells us Voldemort cast a disillusionment charm that hid him from his own eyes. That raises speculation about whether Snape too cast such a charm and flew (he could fly after all) over silently to see what his Master was doing. Snape will never keep this silent and he goes to tell Dumbledore. There the problem begins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zgirnius View Post
In fact, Dumbledore was extremely happy when we saw him. TGW and I are not worried about his happiness, we are trying to decide what we believe about him as a character. (I think, do correct me if I am wrong, TGW!) To me, given the importance of Snape to his plans, and the extremes to which Snape was willing to go to help him, it is important to know how Dumbledore felt about Snape. If he truly did not care much, that says something about him as a person, something I cannot respect. A leader assumes certain obligations to their followers, in my view. I actually think he did; scenes like the one where he has tears in his eyes talking to Snape suggest it to me.

Keep himself safe how? By going into hiding like Karkaroff? I do believe that Snape could do a better job of that, but Snape was more useful to Dumbledore's plans where he was, danger and all. (Though, doing his utmost to remain unsuspected was one of Dumbledore's orders to him.)
Dumbledore was very happy. No dispute about that. But did he give Snape a choice is what bugs me and we don’t have enough to tell us one way or the other. I wanted Dumbledore to feel about Snape like he did about Harry. Snape may have turned for just Lily, but once he did, he was Dumbledore’s most loyal soldier, who was willing to kill for the cause.

Snape I think should have been given a choice. He would have never chosen anything apart from what we saw in the books; still for me it is important, because it shows Dumbledore respected Snape and loved him. I don’t see it and well, I’ve said a thousand times already; I am unhappy.

In the scene where he has tears in his eyes, I thought was because of Snape’s love, something Snape had not forgotten after all this time. He too had not forgotten Grindelwald and I think he was simply stunned and amazed at the strength and depth of Snape’s love and tears came into his eyes unbidden as he saw Snape’s love that was very much like his own. Both unrequited, both never forgotten.

Quote:
(it is my view that if Dumbledore had died of the curse, Voldemort would immediately have become Master of the Elder Wand - it was his wand that created the deadly curse in the first place).
Why do you say this and how did you come to this conclusion?

It may be his wand that created the deadly curse, but it was to kill, not to defeat. For the Elder wand I think you need not kill. the wand attaches itself to the strongest wizard and the most powerful one. and most importantly there was no intention to win the wand.


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The man who, in my opinion, won the war against Voldemort for Harry Potter and the Light! Severus Snape!

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