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Old January 16th, 2008, 9:25 pm
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Re: Snape and Dumbledore: Joint Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods View Post
Well I would like to start by saying all these examples are instances of a Snape/Harry confrontation where one is goading the other (Snape) and the other is extremely defiant and disobedient in not following the rules and the teacher. (Harry)

In Dumbledore's office Snape had no reason to believe Voldemort was alive in any way. Harry has miraculously survived the AK and not only had he survived, but had rebounded the curse on Voldemort who was dead to all intent and purpose. Snape did not know about the horcruxes and he had no way of knowing that Harry would need protection from Voldemort in any way. Once Dumbledore told him that he believed Voldemort would return, Snape agrees and in fact does not want Harry to know about his forthcoming help at all.
I agree with you, however what you have said does not show that Snape desired to protect Harry, it shows he did it because Dumbledore asked him to.

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There is a killer on the street; a man who was the cause Harry's parents were no longer alive, a death eater, a traitor. Harry has been forbidden to leave the School premises on those grounds. But does Harry listen? NO, he runs off and is also foolish enough IMO to get seen by Malfoy of all people who tells Snape. I think Snape is well within his rights to scold Harry and inspect an old parchment Harry has on him and one he clearly does not wish to leave with Snape.

I think Snape read that in his mind, though and he checks the paper to see if its safe and wen he sees the insults which he may have heard from the Marauders, I don't know about that, but to Snape those words make him turn to the floo and call Lupin.
I agree with you, Lupin told Harry off as well. But Harry only learned the Lesson of Protection from Lupin, not Snape, because Snape's loathing for Harry and James overcame any promise he'd made to Dumbledore to protect Harry. Snape's personal vendetta overcame all else and he turned to inflicting pain as his goal rather than ensuring a lesson was learned by Harry that would assist in protecting him against future danger. This was the point I was making. If Snape's primary goal was to protect Harry because that is truly what he wished to do, that would have taken precedence over his personal need to lash out at Harry when the opportunity to do so presented itself.

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Here I think Dumbledore and Harry share the blame. Snape started well enough, but if Harry was never going to practise, because he kind of liked seeing the black door and was wanting to see what would lay beyond it, that was not going to help Occluding his mind any IMO. Snape also did not know about the scar, while I think Dumbledore had already begun suspecting.

Harry did not know why his scar hurt so much and why he could see as Nagini. Snape did not know the scar was actually a part of Voldemort. So both of them were a bit in the dark there.

Snape showed his impatience with Harry, especially as Harry kept coming out with memories of Voldemort meeting his death eaters. In fact when Harry breaks into Snape's mind, Snape is not angry nor does he shout at him. He seems shocked and surprised. So Harry not leaning Occlumency at that time is not Snape's fault IMO.
Again, I don't disagree with you - but what you have said supports my point. Snape allowed his personal feelings of impatience and loathing to override his promise to protect Harry. Had the protection of Harry been Snape's primary goal - or even a salient desire - he would have ensured Harry was protected over his own petty concerns like embarrassment, anger and loathing at Harry looking into his pensieve. But Snape behaved as if he were doing Harry a favor against his will and since Harry messed up, Snape washed his hands of the Occulmency lessons. One who really wishes to protect someone does not wash their hands just because the going gets rough.

Snape had everyone on his side here except Harry. Ron, Hermione, Dumbledore, Sirius, and Remus were all very much concerned that Harry learn the Occulmency. All of them made a special effort to convince Harry to work with Snape and to learn the skill. But Snape was the only one who could offer the protection and he dropped the ball.

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Snape has just killed Dumbledore and taken upon his head as the second most despicable man in the WW, next only to Voldemort, for the sake of the Light, Order, Harry Potter and Draco Malfoy IMO. An act that even Moody and Remus and Kinglesy would not agree to do for the repercussions that would follow.

It is at this time Harry chases him and taunts him. Snape's mind at that time must have been terrible and yet, he merely counters Harry's curses, teaches him, shouts to the other death eaters to leave him alone until Harry calls him a coward; a coward at the time he had committed the most courageous act. Snape hexed him and ran away. I cannot see anything wrong in this.
Whether it was right or wrong was not the issue we were discussing. We were discussing Snape's protection of Harry. In this instance, Harry required protection FROM SNAPE. That was supplied by Buckbeak. That is why this serves as an example that Snape did not wish to protect Harry, but only did so based on his promise to Dumbledore. When the going got rough, he washed his hands of the promise, when the going got really rough, he attacked Harry himself - in both this instance and the one above, Snape proved that any protection he sought to give was a result of the promise he'd made and not out of a desire to do so, imo.

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Well you answered it yourself. Snape could hardly come out into the open. It was he who alerted the Order memebers in OOTP, without which, Harry and the others would have surely died that day. In GoF too, Snape was feeling the mark burn as Voldemort had just called to his death eaters and until Harry returned, no one really knew where he had gone. With Voldemort having returned, Snape was at the threshold of going back as a spy. He could hardly come to Harry's assistance openly at that time IMO.
I agree - but the point is, Snape didn't have to come out in the open to protect Harry if that was his desire. He was a spy, he could keep track of Harry if he cared enough to do so, but the fact is, he didn't care enough to do so. He loathed Harry and that is how Snape's character was written. Dumbledore made Snape promise to help protect Harry, and at times Snape attempted to do so, but often, his other priorities or simple dislike of the chore got in the way and he did not protect Harry. This, imo, shows that Snape was attempting to keep a promise he'd made to Dumbledore that he did not desire to do and was beyond his mental capability at times to perform.


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