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Old July 26th, 2008, 6:41 pm
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Re: Snape and Lily: Joint Character Analysis v.3

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Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy View Post
You didn't . I was just telling you something funny JKR had said on the topic.
Than I am sorry I misunderstood your comment wicked! I was searching in my memory, just where I had implied or said anything that could be construed this way.

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I feel this is distinctive. Criminal lawyers, attempting to understand the criminal mind in order to defend their prosecution and convince a jury, will study and/or learn about criminal behavior from experts.
Correct! That is in the muggle world. In the WW, there is no evidence there are places for Higher studies or specialization in a particular trade or craft. I really don't know how it is done and from where people specialize in a particular subject, even the Professors at Hogwarts.

I think they kind of do it on their own or on the job. Which means Snape trying to learn Potions and become an expert at it would try all on his own and learn as he went along IMO.

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However, I feel Snape's purpose was evident enough to Lily that she did not see Snape's fascination as a good thing. That is, Snape was not studying them to enlarge his academic scope or in order to fight against them in her eyes (find defenses for them) or I feel she would have been fine with it - even encouraged him. However, as JKR said, Lily didn't see her friendship with Snape becoming anything more due to his being drawn to loathsome dark arts friends and acts. Note, JKR indicated that Lily found the things Snape was drawn to in relation to the dark arts loathsome, that means she was averse to them, imo, based on what she felt the purpose was behind Snape's fascination.
I think Lily did not see the dark arts as an evil thing; she saw its practise as evil and she throughly disliked Snape's friendship with Avery and Mulciber. That is the only thing we see in canon and she says she is sure that Snape will be a DE. We don't read anything about her aversion to reading the dark arts (not to its practise, please note).

All other things are not canon. Have we anywhere in the books where Lily said she did not like the dark arts, their use and Snape's fascination for them? I just cannot remember.

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I agree with you that to show someone is good they do not have to openly shun the dark arts and that whole way of thinking. However, in the case of Snape, he openly called other's Mudblood, and blood purism is largely what Voldemort's evil regime rested upon.
When Snape called her a Mudblood, the friendship was all but over. That did not influence Lily to end the friendship IMO.

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Additionally, Snape invented dark curses and practiced them (Sectumsempra was his favorite - DH/Fallen Warrior; he knew more dark curses than many 7th years coming in - GoF; and shown in SWM, aimo). JKR also indicated that Snape was planning to join Voldemort as he wished to be an impressive person and he believed it would impress Lily. Lily accused him of this in DH-TPT, so apparently Snape's acts and behavior led her to believe what JKR said was true. Thus, in my judgment, Snape was openly showing than he embraced the dark arts, rather than merely studying them for academic or defensive purposes.
Again that does not make him bad or evil; the man who invented the AK may have been a good man; the man who invented the crucio could have never cast a spell to harm others, that cannot be IMO a criteria to judge a person.

That Snape was planning to join Voldemort was very much in the future. Even Lily says so; she says that Snape can't wait to leave school before joining Voldemort, but where does she say that Snape was practising the dark arts and that she had been fighting with him because of that?

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While I would not be able to agree that Lily didn't ask Snape how he was since we came in on the middle of a conversation; I would agree that at the time of that conversation the friendship was deeply on the rocks. I also agree that by SWM it was all but non existent as she didn't speak to Snape at all throughout the entire scene until he called her a filthy little Mudblood and she told him off.
While we came in the middle of a conversation, the conversation about the memory was started only afetr we came in. That was the time Lily started off about the werewolf incident saying Snape was ungrateful; that she had heard what had happened the other night.

She never asked Snape how he was and nor did she ask him how he entered the tunnel and who told him the way IMO. Those are natural quuestions friends ask. Lily never did. That was why I felt that the friendship started breaking after the werewolf memory, when Lily "heard" about the rescue and started falling for James.

And by the SWM it was all over IMO.

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Well to be fair, whoever told Lily the story likely told her that James had saved Snape prior to his coming to any harm. She didn't indicate that Snape had been saved from fighting a monster, only that he'd seen what was down there and was rescued from it harming him (DH TPT).
Who could have told her? Dumbledore, Sirius, Remus, Peter, James and Snape were the only ones who knew about it, and they were forbidden to talk about it.

Snape, never told her, because Snape tries to speak about the incident in the memory which happened sometime later than the incident itself. So it had to be Dumbledore or one of the Marauders IMO.


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