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Old December 23rd, 2010, 8:48 pm
canismajoris  Male.gif canismajoris is offline
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Re: Feminism: Definitions and Opinions

Originally Posted by NumberEight View Post
Find a single post where I say or imply that.
Let's review:

Originally Posted by NumberEight
As for the gender-equality issue, well, I don't care about that. It doesn't bother me. I would be flattered if I was addressed as "Sir" if I was a female officer, as it would make me feel equal to my male counterparts.
Originally Posted by NumberEight View Post
Unfortunately, females will never be considered equal to men. That's the reason I said what I did in the BSG post. This strawmanning makes me wonder why a lot of people hate feminists.
The sum of these comments is not, as Fleur suggested, a mere implication that women can only feel equal to their male counterparts if addressed as "sir," it is an assertion that women will never be equal to their male counterparts under any circumstances. Is this really the position you wish to defend?

Originally Posted by NumberEight View Post
The strawman is that I apparently said that no female officer can equal a man's accomplishments unless they are addressed as "sir." I said no such thing. I said I would "feel" equal and I put that comment into the context of what I was thinking at the time, that females will unfortunately never be considered equal.
Actually I think a rather charitable inference was made compared to what you're actually saying. I don't agree with you at all. I feel men are equal to women in all reasonably possible ways, because my experience has taught me this. It's not just some ideology that I decided to adopt because it was trendy. I think it's extremely dangerous to follow your line of thinking that the goal is unattainable, because then what is the point of trying? How do these statements hit you?

Women will never be able to run businesses.
Women will never be able to own land.
Women will never be able to vote.
Women will never be able to make decisions about their own bodies.
Women will never be able to make the same salary as a man.

For every case where these have been proved false there are cases where they are still largely or entirely true. If you think that equality is a pipe dream, I wonder what you'd say to women in Uganda who are evicted from their rightful homes, or girls in Nepal who are sold into slavery, or women in Saudi Arabia who want to be politically involved but have no rights, or women in the U.S. who deserve higher wages but won't ever earn them? That there's no help for them because women will never be considered equal? Sorry, but I hope you're not right.

Significant ETA: I can't double-post, so please consider this bit separately: I want to post some additional quotes from this Lakoff book for further discussion:

pg 41My point is that linguistic and social change go hand in hand: one cannot, purely by changing language use, change social status.

pg 45I think one should force onself to be realistic: certain aspects of language are available to the native speaker for conscious analysis, and others are too common, too thoroughly mixed throughout the language, for the speaker to be aware each time he uses them.

pg 45Attempt to change only what can be changed, since this is hard enough.

pg 46[Regarding "herstory" and "himicanes"]: If this sort of stuff appears in print and in the popular media as often as it does, it becomes increasingly more difficult to persuade men that women are really rational beings.

Last edited by canismajoris; December 24th, 2010 at 2:56 am.
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