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Vera October 2nd, 2008 12:16 am

The Hunger Games
 
Hello, I just finished reading a book called "The Hunger Games" I noticed that no one on here had it mentioned yet and so I had to make a topic because I think it's a really interssting read, I actually read it twice back to back. If you're a Twilight fan you may have noticed Stephanie Meyers' recomendation of the book on hers site. It's worth the read.

Here's a quick synopisis, It's doesn't give much away in case you do want to read the book sometime:

"COULD YOU SURVIVE ON YOUR OWN, IN THE WILD, WITH EVERYONE FIGHTING AGAINST YOU?
Twenty- four are forced to enter. Only the winner survives.

In the ruins of a place once known as North America lies the nation of Panem, a shining Capitol surrounded by twelve outlying districts. Each year, the districts are forced by the Capitol to send one boy and one girl between the ages of twelve and eighteen to participate in the Hunger Games, a brutal and terrifying fight to the death – televised for all of Panem to see.

Survival is second nature for sixteen-year-old Katniss Everdeen, who struggles to feed her mother and younger sister by secretly hunting and gathering beyond the fences of District 12. When Katniss steps in to take the place of her sister in the Hunger Games, she knows it may be her death sentence. If she is to survive, she must weigh survival against humanity and life against love

jonsgirljen November 30th, 2008 8:17 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I read this book because I saw that Stephenie Meyer had recommended it on her website. And I have to say that I really liked it. I wasn't sure what to think of it at first because it was so unlike anything that I had ever read before, but as I went along with it, I just couldn't put it down. I thought that it was an amazing story.

Spoiler: show
I really liked the love story between Katniss and Peeta. But at the end, when she tells him that she was only pretending so they could survive was heartbreaking because I felt like she was seriously falling for him. It did say End of Book 1, so maybe in the next one, she will realize that her feelings were real. I hope anyway.


I really enjoyed this story. It was very powerful.

Hermi0nechik92 December 31st, 2008 7:04 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I just finished it tonight after getting my hands on it this morning! It was absolutely amazing, and I could not put it down!!! We need to get more viewers for the thread! I would recommend it to anyone!

battakis June 16th, 2009 1:23 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Yeah, I read it cause Steph Meyer said it would be good. and i have to admit, when i started i was like uh this wont be very good, but i got totally hooked! it was awesome. such a thrill ride. I am now eagerly waiting for the next.
I love recommendations by authors you love. They are always good. Here's a heads-up, JK Rowling recommended 'I Capture the Castle' by Dodie Smith, and it was sick man. I loved it.

dumbledores1fan July 12th, 2009 1:56 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I just finished reading it, and it was amazing! The storyline was so unique, I could not put it down! I can't wait for the second one!

Spoiler: show
I'm hoping that Katniss and Peeta get together in the second one. I felt horrible for him when Katniss told him it was all pretend and he was so crushed.

AmeliaPotter October 1st, 2009 3:40 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I dislike Stephenie Meyer so the fact she recommended it was a deterrent to me, but then someone explained the merit of the novel I thought perhaps it was worth a read. I wasn't disappointed, it was brilliant. It had what so many commercial releases of this nature lack, some actual literary substance and a message as well as compelling characters and an airtight plot. Once the games started I didn't put it down. It was brilliant, so vividly written that it came alive in my head.

Spoiler: show
I will admit that at first when the announcer told them that two tributes from the same district could win, I was a little annoyed. I felt it cheapened the story, because I imagined the massive inner conflict Katniss would be having about killing Peeta, and it sort of destroyed that idea. But the way it was played out was perfect, it couldn't have been any better.


Spoiler: show
I love that in the end and the games are won we believe Katniss to finally be safe, then we find that the Capitol are furious with her and that it may in fact be here where her true struggle for survival begins.

Like you, I was devastated when she told Peeta that it had been an act for the cameras. At the beginning of the book I was unsure of his attentions, but then it becomes clear that Peeta is protecting her and genuinely loves Katniss. Her rejection of him was miserable for me, I actually cried because I was so upset for him, he was such a sweet character.


I will definitely be buying Catching Fire as soon as I can lay my hands on it. Also, I read that the rights have been bought by Lionsgate films. I'm not sure how to feel about this, but on the plus side the author will be adapting the novel for film herself, so I think the true essence of the novel will be captured and it may be a decent adaptation.

GrangerHermione October 23rd, 2009 3:15 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Omygosh, I LOVE LOVE LOVE the Hunger Games. Seriously, it's my new Harry Potter. :) I still love HP, of course. I always will! But since HP's over I'm really happy to have something new to obsess over. :D
Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaPotter (Post 5428689)
Spoiler: show
I will admit that at first when the announcer told them that two tributes from the same district could win, I was a little annoyed. I felt it cheapened the story, because I imagined the massive inner conflict Katniss would be having about killing Peeta, and it sort of destroyed that idea. But the way it was played out was perfect, it couldn't have been any better.

Spoiler: show
I wasn't annoyed at all! I was so glad that she didn't have to kill him. I didn't see them changing the rules back at the end, though. That was a surprise. But I agree, it was perfect the way it played out. Their defiance of the Capitol was the perfect conflict to lead into the next book.

Quote:

Spoiler: show
I love that in the end and the games are won we believe Katniss to finally be safe, then we find that the Capitol are furious with her and that it may in fact be here where her true struggle for survival begins.

I love that, too. It brings so much suspense; you just have to find out what happens next!
Quote:

Spoiler: show
Like you, I was devastated when she told Peeta that it had been an act for the cameras. At the beginning of the book I was unsure of his attentions, but then it becomes clear that Peeta is protecting her and genuinely loves Katniss. Her rejection of him was miserable for me, I actually cried because I was so upset for him, he was such a sweet character.

Spoiler: show
:love: Me too. Peeta all the way!
It was the same way for me. When Peeta told everyone during his interview that he loved Katniss I was like "awwwwwwww!" because I'm a hopless romantic. :love: But I kept having doubts that he was just pretending it all for the games. But he was so sweet, especially in the cave, so I starting figuring out that he wasn't pretending.
I thought it was really sad, too, when he was so heartbroken at the end. It broke my heart too. :( But I don't think it was all pretend for Katniss. I think she was starting to fall for him during the Games, maybe even before. Before the Games start she realizes, "I have kept track of the boy with the bread," and later during the games she realizes, "I do not want to lose the boy with the bread." I think at the end she's just confused about everything because not all of her feelings for Peeta were pretend.

Quote:

Also, I read that the rights have been bought by Lionsgate films. I'm not sure how to feel about this, but on the plus side the author will be adapting the novel for film herself, so I think the true essence of the novel will be captured and it may be a decent adaptation.
Yep, I am SO excited about this. :D I think it'll make a great movie, especially since Suzanne herself is writing it. I've been trying to figure out who'd be good for the cast; it's so hard!

I read Catching Fire too and I LOVE IT! It doesn't solve anything, though, it just presents new problems and adds soooooooo much suspense that it's driving me out of my mind! I can't wait for the third book. :D
Team Peeta all the way. :love:

AmeliaPotter October 26th, 2009 10:52 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GrangerHermione (Post 5443135)

Spoiler: show
I wasn't annoyed at all! I was so glad that she didn't have to kill him. I didn't see them changing the rules back at the end, though. That was a surprise. But I agree, it was perfect the way it played out. Their defiance of the Capitol was the perfect conflict to lead into the next book.

Spoiler: show
Don't get me wrong, I was happy she didn't have to kill him, but I thought that it was such a great source of suspense that I was disappointed the announcement ended it. But then it returns again in the best way possible, so I didn't mind in the end, I thought it was a brilliant literary tool.


Quote:

Spoiler: show
:love: Me too. Peeta all the way!
It was the same way for me. When Peeta told everyone during his interview that he loved Katniss I was like "awwwwwwww!" because I'm a hopless romantic. :love: But I kept having doubts that he was just pretending it all for the games. But he was so sweet, especially in the cave, so I starting figuring out that he wasn't pretending.
I thought it was really sad, too, when he was so heartbroken at the end. It broke my heart too. :( But I don't think it was all pretend for Katniss. I think she was starting to fall for him during the Games, maybe even before. Before the Games start she realizes, "I have kept track of the boy with the bread," and later during the games she realizes, "I do not want to lose the boy with the bread." I think at the end she's just confused about everything because not all of her feelings for Peeta were pretend.

Spoiler: show
I reacted in exactly the same way, I wasn't quite sure at first whether it was all an act, but as soon as he told the story about the first time he saw her I knew it was real :love: As for Katniss, I think she she genuinely cares about Peeta, but doesn't love him... the way I interpreted it, by telling Peeta at the end that it was an act, she effectively chose Gale before even knowing if Gale wanted her or not. If he hadn't wanted her then it would have been simple, but since he does in Catching Fire (CF) it makes her even more conflicted. But I'm definitely on Team Peeta :love: I want to know what happened to him at the end of CF so badly.


Quote:

Yep, I am SO excited about this. :D I think it'll make a great movie, especially since Suzanne herself is writing it. I've been trying to figure out who'd be good for the cast; it's so hard!
Definitely, I'm usually hesitant at the idea of my favourite books being adapted into movies, because my main concern is that it won't capture the essence of the original. But the author herself writing it was a good enough guarantee for me. As for castings, for some reason I keep on finding an actor that I think is perfect for the role, then find out he's English not American. For example, I keep picturing Alex Pettyfer as Peeta. To me, he's perfect. And if he were a bit younger, Ben Barnes (Prince Caspian in Narnia) for Gale. But they're both English. As for Katniss, I saw someone suggest Kristin Stewart somewhere... I sincerely hope the casting directors don't think the same way, to me she doesn't capture Katniss at all. I can't seem to think of a person I'd like to see cast as her.

Quote:

I read Catching Fire too and I LOVE IT! It doesn't solve anything, though, it just presents new problems and adds soooooooo much suspense that it's driving me out of my mind! I can't wait for the third book. :D
Team Peeta all the way. :love:
Spoiler: show
I ended up buying CF too. The whole District 13 conspiracy theory of an underground society and the rebellions were my favourite parts, along with Haymitch's time in the arena. The concept of them being thrown back into the arena for the new Quarter Quell was such a cruel twist. But I was so enthused in the rebellion plot, that to me, the arena was a distraction from the part of the story I wanted to know. But it was still a great read, I can't believe we have to wait until next year to find out what happens. I particularly want to know the fate of Peeta, poor guy :(

dumbledores1fan November 29th, 2009 4:15 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I read Catching Fire forever ago, but I think I can still post about it if I want....

Spoiler: show
WORST CLIFF HANGER EVER!!!! I am going to die if the third doesn't come out soon! I want to read so bad about the whole District 13 thing and how District 12 was destroyed...it's going to make for a great read! I'm also hoping an epilogue is included, because I'm hoping that Peeta and Katniss will finally officially get together!

GemmieWasntHere January 10th, 2010 3:56 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Oh. My. Gosh. I seriously LOOOOVEEEEEEE The Hunger Games!!!!

Okay, I'm one of the people that was annoyed that Stephanie Meyer recommended it because really, really don't like her. But two of my teachers recommended it and I HAD to read it. I couldn't put it down AT ALL. When I finished it on a weekend I was so angry at myself for finishing it before I could get the second one.
Then the second one was AMAZING!!!!! The end... GAH! I can't wait until August! Especially with how THAT ended. I don't think I've ever been more mad at an author for writing something AMAZING (well actually, I've been mad at Scott Westerfeld for making me feel too connected to his characters...)

anyway, when I heard it was a movie, I nearly fell out of my bed (my friend texted it to me and I was napping at the time). But I didn't know that Suzanne Collins herself is going to be writing it! THAT'LL MAKE IT THE BEST MOVIE ADAPTION EVER!!!!! I seriously can't wait!!

Clockworthy January 10th, 2010 6:38 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I had read the first book before seeing that SMeyer had recommended it on the back of Catching Fire. I don't think I would have picked it up otherwise.

I loved the first one--and I can hardly stand to read first person stories, except for the actual Games. I thought they would be different, not this typical survival thing.

The second one was mostly 2/3rds psychobabble, but enjoyable after page 205 in the US hardback version.

HMN February 26th, 2010 3:38 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I just finished The Hunger Games, and while it was pretty reminiscent of The Running Man, I thought it was really well done, and I really liked how it was a set up for a much larger story. I really enjoy books about dystopian societies, so this was pretty much right up my alley.

I particularly liked:
Spoiler: show
The contrast between the colorful, modern, squeaky clean Capitol and the grubbiness of District 12. I thought it was really good political commentary to play up the idea that some wealthier districts train specific children for the games, while others are too busy working and starving and just trying to survive daily life. I recall near the end of the story Katniss wonders what she would possibly do with all of her time if she didn't have to hunt daily to provide food for her family.

I felt that Peeta's love was genuine from the start and that Katniss was put in a really unfair position. She probably does love him to some extent, but when you're in an extreme situation it is hard to know what is real. It's sort of like those silly reality TV shows like "The Bachelor" as soon as the show is over the love fades because it didn't happen in a natural way to begin.

I loved that Katniss remembered throughout that they were playing a game. Knew what the gamemasters would do, what would satiate the crowd. I thought that was a really good way of showing that she didn't lose herself in the game.

Personally I was more touched by Katniss and Rue than the love story of her and Peeta. But it was Peeta who planted the seed in her mind to stay true to herself, which is what made Rue's death so sad and beautiful.


Ick, I didn't know S Meyer recommends The Hunger Games. I don't like her work at all, but I guess she has good taste. I was listening to the Hogs Head podcast and Travis Prinze recommended it. I agree with most of what he has to say and he was very excited about the first two books, so I ran out to the bookstore and picked them up.

Anyway, going to start the next one tomorrow then will have to patiently wait until the 3rd one comes out.

HMN February 27th, 2010 10:26 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
OK, I finished Catching Fire since the last time I posted. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaPotter (Post 5444628)
Spoiler: show
I want to know what happened to him at the end of CF so badly.

Spoiler: show
I ended up buying CF too. The whole District 13 conspiracy theory of an underground society and the rebellions were my favourite parts, along with Haymitch's time in the arena. The concept of them being thrown back into the arena for the new Quarter Quell was such a cruel twist. But I was so enthused in the rebellion plot, that to me, the arena was a distraction from the part of the story I wanted to know. But it was still a great read, I can't believe we have to wait until next year to find out what happens. I particularly want to know the fate of Peeta, poor guy :(

Spoiler: show
Me too. I can't believe they left us hanging like that at the end of CF! I was judging by how many pages were left in the book when the Quarter Quell started that the games would be VERY short or they would somehow be interrupted. As soon as they separated Peeta and Katniss I knew something bad was going to happen.

When Cinna transformed the wedding dress into the mockingjay I was floored. I knew it was certain death for him, but it also showed how many people are really on the side of a rebellion.

I am also very interested to see what District 13 has to offer, who else they have with them to lead the rebellion and how it will all end.


Quote:

Definitely, I'm usually hesitant at the idea of my favourite books being adapted into movies, because my main concern is that it won't capture the essence of the original. But the author herself writing it was a good enough guarantee for me. As for castings, for some reason I keep on finding an actor that I think is perfect for the role, then find out he's English not American. For example, I keep picturing Alex Pettyfer as Peeta. To me, he's perfect. And if he were a bit younger, Ben Barnes (Prince Caspian in Narnia) for Gale. But they're both English. As for Katniss, I saw someone suggest Kristin Stewart somewhere... I sincerely hope the casting directors don't think the same way, to me she doesn't capture Katniss at all. I can't seem to think of a person I'd like to see cast as her.
No, no, no we can't have kristen stewart as Katniss. Katniss doesn't play with her hair constantly and pout. Please no. We need a fighter, someone who is fierce. Not that I have anyone in mind but after Adventureland and Twilight I know that I do not want Kristen Stewart. Actually I'd probably skip the movie if she was the lead.

gelowo93 March 12th, 2010 1:23 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I finished the first one this week but I've asked for the second for my birthday so I have to wait a month until I can read it :grumble:

I wasn't sure if I liked it at first, it threw me off being written in present tense but once I got used to that I got sucked in :lol:

Spoiler: show
I could tell from the beginning that Peeta was in love with Katniss - I think I was up to chapter 6 and then I decided to skip to the last page to see if my suspicions were right :p I'm a sucker for spoilers. So for the beginning part of the games I was wondering how both of them would survive, and then there was the announcement saying that both tributes from a district could win and I thought that was it. I was not expecting them to change the rules again. Am I the only one who thinks that they changed the rules in the first place just because of the Peeta/Katniss thing going on?


Can't wait to read Catching Fire, and the last book comes out in August (I think)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HMN
No, no, no we can't have kristen stewart as Katniss. Katniss doesn't play with her hair constantly and pout. Please no. We need a fighter, someone who is fierce. Not that I have anyone in mind but after Adventureland and Twilight I know that I do not want Kristen Stewart. Actually I'd probably skip the movie if she was the lead.

I agree, she doesn't seem much of a fighter, although I did watch her in The Messengers and she was quite good. I don't think she's strong enough to play Katniss, and maybe a bit too old - isn't she 20 this year and Katniss is supposed to be 16? I think it's likely that it'll be an unknown who gets the part, but then again I don't know many young actresses.

katana March 13th, 2010 12:35 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I love these books! I wish there was more info on the movie coming about. And I agree that KStew would not make a good Katniss. I just hope that Summit doesn't end up with this movie, or you'll have 1/2 the Twilight cast in it.

Anyway. I thought Catching Fire dragged a bit then picked up about halfway through. The ending killed me though!
Spoiler: show
From District 12 being gone and District 13 coming back(?) or found, to Peeta missing/with the Capitol, and Gale with Katniss killed me. I'm a Peeta fan, so to have Gale show up didn't thrill me :lol: I'm thinking Gale will be making more of an appearance in Mockingjay :grumble: :lol:


I enjoyed Finnick in the second book and I think Finnick is one of my new favorite characters!

ETA: found this little bit on mockingjay.net about the movie. Comingsoon talked to someone from Lionsgate about the movie. They said that Suzanne Collins is working on the script right now, and they hope to start filming this fall with a fall or winter 2011 release.

Prendsmoncoeur March 14th, 2010 5:13 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
'The Hunger Games'-books are one of my favorites. I had won the first book with a writing contest and from the first time I read it, I was stuck. I think it has an original storyline, a surprising plot and interesting characters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana (Post 5508006)
I enjoyed Finnick in the second book and I think Finnick is one of my new favorite characters!

Finnick was one of the best new characters in Catching Fire! :love:

And Kirsten Stewart as Katniss is a big no no.

HMN March 24th, 2010 4:36 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Finnick! And Johanna! I loved all the victors actually - well except for the careers but I'm not supposed to like them am I? :lol:

I loved how THG really lead into CF, and can't wait to see where Mockingjay takes us.

Spoiler: show
I loved the whole Quarter Quell, all the victors working together, the design of the arena and the break out.

After reading both books twice though I am so amazed at how well Haymitch's character is written. We are so convinced that he's a drunk that we don't see what a mastermind he is. In THG during the reaping he makes a drunken slur about rebellion, and then he makes another comment after Cinna has Katniss and Peeta hold hands, "Nice and rebellious" he says.

I also found the whole idea that the games give all the victors nightmares, drives them crazy, makes them turn to drink or drugs to get through their normal everyday lives so frightening. That they never escape the arena. The capitol remakes their bodies, but can't fix their memories.


Also, how long should we keep spoiler tags going in this thread. The first two books have been out for some time - should we just post openly?

HMN March 25th, 2010 8:57 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I've started a social group to chat about why The Hunger Games books are so awesome! Come on over!

http://www.cosforums.com/group.php?groupid=437

GrangerHermione March 27th, 2010 6:01 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by katana (Post 5508006)
Anyway. I thought Catching Fire dragged a bit then picked up about halfway through. The ending killed me though!
Spoiler: show
From District 12 being gone and District 13 coming back(?) or found, to Peeta missing/with the Capitol, and Gale with Katniss killed me. I'm a Peeta fan, so to have Gale show up didn't thrill me :lol: I'm thinking Gale will be making more of an appearance in Mockingjay :grumble: :lol:

Spoiler: show
I agree! That cliffhanger is driving me nuts!!! NOT PEETA!! O.O And yeah I think we'll see more Gale in Mockingjay :grumble: I love him and all but seriously, he's getting in the way! :lol: I'm just hoping that being away from Peeta will make Katniss finally be able to sort out her muddled feelings and realize that Peeta is her true love, and she only loves Gale as a friend. :D

Quote:

I enjoyed Finnick in the second book and I think Finnick is one of my new favorite characters!
I liked Finnick, too, but I didn't really feel as connected to him as a lot of other people did. Him and Johanna are my favorite new characters. Johanna's so fiesty. :D I love her "Whole country in rebellion? Wouldn't want that!" comment. And I have a feeling that she has a whole other side to her. She says in CF that there's no one left she loves, so that's probably why she's so rude and defiant. In THG it says she won her Games by pretending to be weak and then coming out fighting. But what if she wasn't pretending? What if she actually was softer, but then she became hard and angry because she lost everything?
Spoiler: show
I think that if Peeta and her escape from the Capitol and go on the run together, Peeta, being the sweetie that he is, will try to get to know her and then she might open up and we'll get to know more about her. :)

I hope we find out more about Finnick and Annie's story, too. That puts a lot of depth in Finnick's character.

Quote:

ETA: found this little bit on mockingjay.net about the movie. Comingsoon talked to someone from Lionsgate about the movie. They said that Suzanne Collins is working on the script right now, and they hope to start filming this fall with a fall or winter 2011 release.
Yes, I heard about that to! :clap: So excited. I just hope that since Suzanne is finished with Mockingjay (isn't she?) she'll get writing on the script so we can have more movie news. :D
Quote:

Originally Posted by HMN (Post 5512755)
Also, how long should we keep spoiler tags going in this thread. The first two books have been out for some time - should we just post openly?

Hmmm, idk, some people might read THG and come straight here because they liked it so much before they read CF. So I think if we decide to post openly, we should at least edit the first post and put a spoiler warning, if there isn't one there already. I do want to start posting openly, though; putting spoiler tags in is getting annoying. :lol:
Quote:

Originally Posted by HMN (Post 5513471)
I've started a social group to chat about why The Hunger Games books are so awesome! Come on over!

http://www.cosforums.com/group.php?groupid=437

Yes yes COME! :love:

Oh yeah, I thought I might as well post a link to my livejournal...I made it in honor of Peeta and and have a few Hunger Games fanfics and icons over there, if anyone would be interested. :D My current avi is actually one of them, from Rue's lullaby. :)

Bella_Crucio_U March 29th, 2010 8:03 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I love The Hunger Games and Catching Fire!!! I cannot wait until Mockingjay comes out! I'm Team peeta all the way! I think I like Catching Fire better and this book is my second favorite series only behind HP. The cliffy at the end of CF really killed me, though. I have have a mockingjay pin from Boarders and it's really cool looking.

ActingDude17 March 30th, 2010 3:56 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Stephenie Meyer recommends it? I have my doubts based on that. I'm not trying to sound like a prude or anything but I've also yet to receive a male recommendation of the series.

Bella_Crucio_U March 30th, 2010 7:41 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I absolutely hate Twilight and it took me a long time to be convinced to read The Hunger Games simply because Stephanie Meyer recommended it. But trust me it is amazing! My dad read and liked it and he dosn't read anything!

GrangerHermione March 30th, 2010 2:14 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ActingDude17 (Post 5515276)
Stephenie Meyer recommends it? I have my doubts based on that. I'm not trying to sound like a prude or anything but I've also yet to receive a male recommendation of the series.

It's definitely not just for girls. :) A lot of my guy friends have read it, and they love it. Just give it a try, and I promise it won't disappoint. I have yet to meet someone that read it and didn't like it. Stephenie Meyer is just another person that read it and loved it. I've heard that Stephen King read it too! It's a good read for anyone.

ActingDude17 March 31st, 2010 1:43 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GrangerHermione (Post 5515450)
It's definitely not just for girls. :) A lot of my guy friends have read it, and they love it. Just give it a try, and I promise it won't disappoint. I have yet to meet someone that read it and didn't like it. Stephenie Meyer is just another person that read it and loved it. I've heard that Stephen King read it too! It's a good read for anyone.

Thanks so much for understanding what I meant. Stephen King liked it? That's a clincher in my book. I'll have to give the first one a read sometime.

HMN March 31st, 2010 3:55 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ActingDude17 (Post 5515276)
Stephenie Meyer recommends it? I have my doubts based on that. I'm not trying to sound like a prude or anything but I've also yet to receive a male recommendation of the series.

I was very surprised that SM recommended it - but then I realized that they picked her for a quote only because of her popularity (even though it had the opposite effect for me). I learned about the books from the Hogs Head podcast. Travis Prinze - the host, who is well read in Potter, LotR, Narnia books and Wrinkle in Time - raved about it and that is what sent me to the bookstore. I think you can pick up on the love story and focus on that, or you can enjoy the dystopian society aspect of it as well as the survival skills and mind games.

I was very surprised at how much I loved both books, and how quickly I wanted to re-read them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrangerHermione (Post 5514220)
Hmmm, idk, some people might read THG and come straight here because they liked it so much before they read CF. So I think if we decide to post openly, we should at least edit the first post and put a spoiler warning, if there isn't one there already. I do want to start posting openly, though; putting spoiler tags in is getting annoying. :lol:

Good point - since the books are still catching on, we should keep the thread going with spoiler tags. On the social group I have in the description that it is a spoiler filled place to chat, so we can squee and discuss freely in there. :)

PotterFanDuh April 17th, 2010 2:33 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ActingDude17 (Post 5515276)
Stephenie Meyer recommends it? I have my doubts based on that. I'm not trying to sound like a prude or anything but I've also yet to receive a male recommendation of the series.

Almost everyone in my Humanities plus class has at least read the first Hunger Games, including the guys, and everyone loved it. I think anyone can read THG, you would think males actually enjoy it more due to the frequent killing...:yuhup:

But anyway, it's a fascinating concept. I normally am not a fan of science fiction books, but this is a thrilling read! I would definitely recommend it to a more mature audience since it's kind of gory at (a lot of) times, but it's well worth it. I can't wait for the third!

gelowo93 April 18th, 2010 6:26 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PotterFanDuh (Post 5524548)
I would definitely recommend it to a more mature audience since it's kind of gory at (a lot of) times, but it's well worth it.

Yes, it's definitely gory. I've only read the first one (I'm getting Catching Fire on Thursday :D I'm going crazy with the waiting :yuhup:) and I had the bad idea to read it while I was eating meals, just to get through it faster. Some parts, especially near the end of the Games, made me want to be sick. But it's a great read, I'm on my 3rd re-read in a month.

HMN June 9th, 2010 5:18 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I posted this in the Social Group a while ago - but Suzanne Collins made Time magazine's 100 Most Influential people this year!

Mockingjay is getting closer to publication. I can't wait for August 24th!

MrsLupin June 19th, 2010 3:46 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I read both of the books and absolutely loved them. I can't wait for Mockingjay to come out! I read that Collins did a preview of the first bit of the book, but I can't find it anywhere. :( Good things come to those who wait I guess...

FurryDice June 19th, 2010 8:26 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Like a few people, I wasn't so sure about reading the Hunger Games, given Stephenie Meyer's recommendation. But the synopsis in the blurb was intriguing and the first few pages pulled me in. It really is the kind of book that lingers after you've read it, and I made sure to get hold of Catching Fire shortly after finishing the Hunger Games. It's a fascinating concept, a thrilling storyline and well crafted characters. The idea of the Careers is quite creepy, even taking into account the twistedness of the Games themseves.

baseballblondie July 3rd, 2010 7:24 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I read Hunger Games a few weeks ago, and HMN told me to make sure to reserve Catching Fire from the library too.

I finished Catching Fire on Sunday.

I cannot wait til Mockingjay comes out. My favorite part was Cinna and the wedding dress transformation. I can't really believe that the Haymitch has been such a mastermind. And unlike most of the comments I've read, I actually want Katniss and Gale together.

HMN July 4th, 2010 4:13 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Yay BBB, I'm glad you liked it! :clap: It seems like Mockingjay won't be here for ages.

So here's a question for all of you: Both books have a fair amount of manipulation going on. The capitol manipulating the districts, the gamemakers manipulating the tributes, Peeta and Haymitch manipulating Katniss (albeit in very different ways).

What do you think of all this - is one type of manipulation better because of the outcome (for example: Peeta's public announcement of love for Katniss vs. Pres. Snow making Katniss live a charade even though he knows it is pointless) or are they the same?

baseballblondie July 4th, 2010 4:53 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I know that I don't like the manipulation that the Capitol does. Peeta, I think that he's trying to do whatever it takes to keep Katniss alive and safe. Even manipulating her. But I think his manipulation is more that he is manipulating the public than he is her.

gelowo93 July 4th, 2010 8:10 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I think that all types of manipulation are bad because you're forcing someone to act against how they think they should act, if you get what I mean. You are essentially taking away someone's free will and determining how they will act, so even though some types of manipulation are less bad than others, it's still wrong. President Snow's manipulation in Catching Fire is worse because he isn't letting Katniss choose her relationship with Peeta and threatening all of her friends and family, so she had no choice but to do as he says. But Peeta's declaration of love isn't as bad because Katniss chooses to play along with it to stay alive - she didn't have to join him but she chose to because she thought it would help her survival. Although Peeta could be said to be just as bad because he's manipulating her feelings, not just her actions :hmm:

Beatifically July 12th, 2010 11:27 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ActingDude17 (Post 5515276)
Stephenie Meyer recommends it? I have my doubts based on that. I'm not trying to sound like a prude or anything but I've also yet to receive a male recommendation of the series.

Stephen King loves The Hunger Games, though. That should make up for any reluctance you previously had. ;)

I'm rereading the books again because I forgot a lot of what happened and the characters. Suffice to say I'm in love again. :love: I was up until 2 am reading it yesterday!

I wish this series had Twilight's fame instead. It's geared towards young adults (I presume) but has the same mass appeal that HP has. In addition, it has some political and moral undertones that make the reader actually think. Such an intelligent, gripping story deserves more recognition.

HMN July 14th, 2010 3:35 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Beatifically (Post 5567080)
I wish this series had Twilight's fame instead. It's geared towards young adults (I presume) but has the same mass appeal that HP has. In addition, it has some political and moral undertones that make the reader actually think. Such an intelligent, gripping story deserves more recognition.

I couldn't agree more. The Hunger Games has so much depth to it, with such an original concept. That the author was combining Roman history with reality shows like Survivor is pretty genius to me.

So I found some discussion questions for the books. Would anyone be into discussing them until Mockingjay comes out?

How does the fact that the tributes are always on camera affect their behavior from the time they are chosen? Does it make it easier or harder for them to accept their fate? How are the "career tributes" different from the others?

baseballblondie July 14th, 2010 3:58 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

How does the fact that the tributes are always on camera affect their behavior from the time they are chosen? Does it make it easier or harder for them to accept their fate? How are the "career tributes" different from the others?
I think that it hopes to give the tributes a martyr image. In some ways, especially for Katniss, it makes it harder to accept their fates. Because they know that yes they are being martyred but who will take care of their families?

The careers. Well, it's like these kids were trained from birth to be tributes. Almost as if they are the "extra" kid and needs to be done away with and this way they can make their families proud. Also it seems like the districts with the careers are sorta like how the old Soviet Union would train potential Olympic athletes to be experts in one sport.

gelowo93 July 14th, 2010 4:24 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HMN (Post 5568328)
That the author was combining Roman history with reality shows like Survivor is pretty genius to me.

I had to research Greek Gods in Philosophy the other day and I came across one called Artemis and it reminded me so much of Katniss - she was the goddess of hunting and wilderness and protector of the young (Katniss looks after Prim and Rue). Artemis is also usually depicted with a bow and arrows. I don't know whether Suzanne Collins meant to make them sound so similar but I think it's interesting.

How does the fact that the tributes are always on camera affect their behavior from the time they are chosen? Does it make it easier or harder for them to accept their fate?

Well, I'm re-reading the books now to prepare for Mockingjay and Katniss is always very aware that there will be cameras following her, but we don't know whether the other tributes think about that as much. I'm sure some of the younger ones that care that there are cameras following them and they just act as they would, but I think older tributes would be more aware that they have to act all of the time so that they don't appear weak and can get sponsors. It probably makes it harder to accept their fate because they constantly have to play this role where they are confidant that they're going to win so that their families don't over worry about them, so then they probably would begin to believe that they will win.

How are the "career tributes" different from the others?

The idea of the career tributes is actually one of the most horrendous things in the books - these children are being trained from the moment they're born to fight in the Games and win. They also make alliances with the other tributes and earn their trust, just to end up having to fight to the death at the end :no: So it would seem that the Career tributes don't have any real friends even outside the Games because they might end up with a friend of the opposite gender as the other tribute.

HMN July 15th, 2010 4:13 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by baseballblondie (Post 5568343)
Also it seems like the districts with the careers are sorta like how the old Soviet Union would train potential Olympic athletes to be experts in one sport.

I had this thought too. It seemed to me that the Careers were hand picked for their build, skill and potential. It didn't seem like just any kid could be a Career because they were highly trained to be killing machines.

I think from the kid's perspective it was probably an honor - they would see so many former victors in their districts with all their wealth that it would be incentive to win - like chances are on your side.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gelowo93
They also make alliances with the other tributes and earn their trust, just to end up having to fight to the death at the end So it would seem that the Career tributes don't have any real friends even outside the Games because they might end up with a friend of the opposite gender as the other tribute.

This is a really good point. I wonder if they are just raised in such a dysfunctional way that they don't see killing as doing anything wrong. Like it's ok to make friends and allies but when it comes down to it, go for the kill. I think they would actually be encouraged to make friends and allies so that they can get to know their prey better.

It also reminds me about how Haymitch, Peeta and Katniss never really get over what the do and see in the arena. I have a suspicion that the Careers have a better time of adjusting to their role in the carnage.

gelowo93 July 15th, 2010 8:40 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HMN (Post 5569161)
It also reminds me about how Haymitch, Peeta and Katniss never really get over what the do and see in the arena. I have a suspicion that the Careers have a better time of adjusting to their role in the carnage.

Yes, that sounds right. At the end of the first book when Katniss and Peeta have to re-watch the games Katniss mentions that "some are triumphant, pumping their fists in the air, beating their chests." I think it's likely that the ones who do that are careers and shows their lack of morality as they're proud to have won and killed at least another child (because they are really - at 18 you don't have that much life experience).

I thought it was interesting that the victors are haunted by their time in the arena. I hadn't really thought about the way the Games affected them once they got out and I guess that that could be one of the reasons why the other victors joined the rebellion in CF - because they know how horrible it is in the arena and how it haunts them afterwards.

HMN July 16th, 2010 4:58 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gelowo93 (Post 5569364)
Yes, that sounds right. At the end of the first book when Katniss and Peeta have to re-watch the games Katniss mentions that "some are triumphant, pumping their fists in the air, beating their chests." I think it's likely that the ones who do that are careers and shows their lack of morality as they're proud to have won and killed at least another child (because they are really - at 18 you don't have that much life experience).

I think this is one of the saddest aspects to it. It reminds me a bit of say certain teen actors/singers/athletes who are molded into wanting fame or the Gold from very young ages. Parents or mentors pushing them to be the best - they often have issues with it later on. The fame is too much, they think they can do anything... There is often a missing sense of morality.

Quote:

I thought it was interesting that the victors are haunted by their time in the arena. I hadn't really thought about the way the Games affected them once they got out and I guess that that could be one of the reasons why the other victors joined the rebellion in CF - because they know how horrible it is in the arena and how it haunts them afterwards.
:huggles: Yes, I love that you made that connections. It wasn't only for their districts, it was for all the future tributes too.

FurryDice July 16th, 2010 10:30 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
[quote]
Quote:

Originally Posted by HMN (Post 5561373)
So here's a question for all of you: Both books have a fair amount of manipulation going on. The capitol manipulating the districts, the gamemakers manipulating the tributes, Peeta and Haymitch manipulating Katniss (albeit in very different ways).

What do you think of all this - is one type of manipulation better because of the outcome (for example: Peeta's public announcement of love for Katniss vs. Pres. Snow making Katniss live a charade even though he knows it is pointless) or are they the same?

I find Peeta's manipulation more understandable, he's trying to protect someone he loves in a truly horrific situation.

I find the actions of the Gamemakers and the Capitol far worse - part of their manipulation involves sending children to their deaths every year to "keep people in line". I think the u-turn with the rule change is a particularly nasty bit of manipulation in that regard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by baseballblondie (Post 5561394)
I know that I don't like the manipulation that the Capitol does. Peeta, I think that he's trying to do whatever it takes to keep Katniss alive and safe. Even manipulating her. But I think his manipulation is more that he is manipulating the public than he is her.

That's it, and he's manipulating a shallow Capitol public, to keep Katniss and himself alive, whereas the Capitol manipulates downtrodden citizens to maintain its own dictatorship. It manipulates kids into murdering each other for entertainment - that is genuinely disturbing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beatifically (Post 5567080)
I wish this series had Twilight's fame instead. It's geared towards young adults (I presume) but has the same mass appeal that HP has. In addition, it has some political and moral undertones that make the reader actually think. Such an intelligent, gripping story deserves more recognition.

:tu: Absolutely agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HMN (Post 5568328)
I couldn't agree more. The Hunger Games has so much depth to it, with such an original concept. That the author was combining Roman history with reality shows like Survivor is pretty genius to me.

It's a great concept, yeah. And there's Greek mythology, too, for good measure. Wasn't the story of the young people of Athens selected by lot to be sent to the Minotaur every year was one of Collins' inspirations?

Quote:

How does the fact that the tributes are always on camera affect their behavior from the time they are chosen? Does it make it easier or harder for them to accept their fate? How are the "career tributes" different from the others?
I think they are going to be consciously aware of the cameras, as Katniss is, possibly wondering how their actions are going to seem to their families, to potential sponsors. I think it's a big worry for the tributes that their families will have to watch them die - Katniss was motivated by not wanting Prim to see her killed slowly by an angry Cato.

Quote:

Originally Posted by baseballblondie (Post 5568343)
The careers. Well, it's like these kids were trained from birth to be tributes. Almost as if they are the "extra" kid and needs to be done away with and this way they can make their families proud. Also it seems like the districts with the careers are sorta like how the old Soviet Union would train potential Olympic athletes to be experts in one sport.

I think that's an interesting analogy. Kids who were seen as athletic or physically strong may have been chosen to be trained. It seems all of this is done unofficially though, as the rules don't allow training pre-Games, but everyone knows it happens in those districts.

It's also a perpetuating cycle - the Career districts are going to have a wider selection of mentors, sponsors are going to be more willing to back a Career, kids will have grown up seeing the wealth of the victors as motivation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HMN (Post 5569161)
This is a really good point. I wonder if they are just raised in such a dysfunctional way that they don't see killing as doing anything wrong. Like it's ok to make friends and allies but when it comes down to it, go for the kill. I think they would actually be encouraged to make friends and allies so that they can get to know their prey better.

I think so - if people raise their kids to think volunteering as a tribute is an honour, their upbringing is seriously dysfunctional.

For victors who have children, I wonder if they have the same suspicion as Katniss, that it's rigged for dramatic value that sons and daughters of past victors are selected. That may be a factor for some of the families, but it seems there's stiff competition to be a tribute in those districts, so it's not all family tradition.

Quote:

It also reminds me about how Haymitch, Peeta and Katniss never really get over what the do and see in the arena. I have a suspicion that the Careers have a better time of adjusting to their role in the carnage.
A lot of the victors shown in CF seem to have had trouble adjusting -the morphlings, Johanna, Haymitch. That's the kind of experience that people would find incredibly hard to deal with afterwards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gelowo93 (Post 5569364)
I thought it was interesting that the victors are haunted by their time in the arena. I hadn't really thought about the way the Games affected them once they got out and I guess that that could be one of the reasons why the other victors joined the rebellion in CF - because they know how horrible it is in the arena and how it haunts them afterwards.

That may be a strong reason for the victors' participation. I think they felt the same anger Katniss and Peeta did at being used as pawns by the Capitol.
I think they had the opportunity to do so as the victors seem to be the only people in the districts (apart from the Mayor, it seems) who can communicate with people from other districts. It's interesting that one of the Districts involved in the rebellion was 4, one of the Career Districts - Finnick and Mags, I think.

baseballblondie July 17th, 2010 5:14 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

It's interesting that one of the Districts involved in the rebellion was 4, one of the Career Districts - Finnick and Mags, I think.
True. Another thought into why the victors were taking part of the rebellion is that they saw and understood Katniss's need to honor Rue like she did. And her "small" act of rebellion of covering her with flowers probably touched the humanity of some of the victors. Even the former Careers.

gelowo93 July 17th, 2010 8:27 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by baseballblondie (Post 5570329)
Even the former Careers.

I can't remember off the top of my head which Districts the victors who joined the rebellion were from, but Finnick and Mags came from 4 and I never imagined that district to be as "high up" as 1 and 2 because isn't their industry fishing? It doesn't really compare to District 1's jewel making (I think) IMO.

I've been re-reading the series trying to spot things that might play a larger part in Mockingjay, and I couldn't help noticing how Katniss describes Rue as being very similar to Prim - this is pure speculation but the way Rue's death is described and Katniss's reaction to it could be foreshadowing Prim's death :shrug: That, and the fact that soon after Katniss goes looking for Peeta, made me think that maybe the first Games that Katniss was in could represent the last book in a way, because I think it's likely that Katniss will go looking for Peeta in Mockingjay :hmm:

FurryDice July 17th, 2010 8:31 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by baseballblondie (Post 5570329)
True. Another thought into why the victors were taking part of the rebellion is that they saw and understood Katniss's need to honor Rue like she did. And her "small" act of rebellion of covering her with flowers probably touched the humanity of some of the victors. Even the former Careers.

I think it possibly had an effect on some of them. However, it seems there were plans for a rebellion even before Katniss -Plutarch Heavensbee and his undercover group had been planning something for years. But I do think Katniss' acts of rebellion had an impact -it's odd that President Snow, and even Katniss herself, consider the poisoned berry stunt to be the spark that set things off. In a way, it was, and it was the major one. However, I agree, her farewell to Rue was a less obvious, but no less emotional act of rebellion. And although it was out of protective instinct, and not rebellion, volunteering in Prim's place was another act of rebellion that got people thinking, imo. As tribute more or less means corpse in District 12, volunteering in place of a loved one was very much saying that no, this isn't an honour, it's horrific, but volunteering is better than the alternative. I think it's a combination of these factors that make Katniss the symbol for the revolution. As well as the timing - considering a revolution was planned.

Is it possible that the Capitol knew some of the victors were up to something and that the Quarter Quell was as much about getting rid of them as it was about getting rid of the symbol of the rebellion?

As for Finnick, I think perhaps the effect of the Games on his love, Annie, may have been one of the factors in turning him against the Capitol. Though we never meet her, she's another example of a victor who was irreparably harmed by the Games.

I wonder what caused Cinna to become part of the rebellion? He's from the Capitol, it seems, so he may not have ever personally known the loss and hurt caused by the Games to the families involved, or the other hardships of the people in the Districts. What prompted him to risk everything with the Mockingjay dress?

baseballblondie July 17th, 2010 8:53 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

I wonder what caused Cinna to become part of the rebellion? He's from the Capitol, it seems, so he may not have ever personally known the loss and hurt caused by the Games to the families involved, or the other hardships of the people in the Districts. What prompted him to risk everything with the Mockingjay dress?
Another thought is what prompted him, with his talents, to request District 12?

FurryDice July 17th, 2010 9:20 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by baseballblondie (Post 5570621)
Another thought is what prompted him, with his talents, to request District 12?

I wonder if we'll find out, especially when he made it clear that he had requested that District. It's possible he was either involved with the rebellion, or more likely, disillusioned with the Captiol - maybe the red-haired Avox girl was somebody he knew? Didn't she seem to have a "Capitol appearance" about her when she was captured in the woods? Or any Avox from the Capitol, really.

That gets me to thinking what would someone from the privileged Capitol have done to merit that punishment? They're considered traitors, which was why Darius met that fate. Is it possible she and her companion in the woods discovered something they shouldn't have known?

But back to Cinna: if he requested 12 before the Reaping, perhaps it was something to do with wanting to make the "Cannon Fodder" district more noticeable, more sympathetic. If it was after the Reaping, perhaps Katniss' act of rebellion stirred something in him -reminded him of something he believes he could or should have done. But then, he would have had no way of knowing if he would be assigned to the male or female tribute. If he was involved in the plans against the Capitol, it may have been suggested to him that this was something they could work with.

gelowo93 July 18th, 2010 7:49 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by baseballblondie (Post 5570621)
Another thought is what prompted him, with his talents, to request District 12?

It's possible that Cinna was involved with the same underground rebellion as Plutarch Heavensbee. When we first see Cinna, Katniss describes him as not being what she expected as someone who was from the Capitol, so it is possible that, as FurryDice said, he was disillusioned with it and joined the rebellion. That could also be why he requested District 12 - we see how the other Districts have stricter security so the rebellion might have targeted District 12 as being the most likely to have someone who was willing to stand up to the Capitol i.e. Katniss.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FurryDice (Post 5570641)
That gets me to thinking what would someone from the privileged Capitol have done to merit that punishment? They're considered traitors, which was why Darius met that fate. Is it possible she and her companion in the woods discovered something they shouldn't have known?

I assumed that they had been part of the underground rebellion and had been discovered, although if that was right they probably would have just been killed. So I quite like your idea that they'd found out something that the Capitol was hiding - maybe they discovered that District 13 still existed, they were part of the rebellion and were on the run trying to get to it? I'm guessing that it's somewhere near District 12 as Bonnie and Twill were heading there as well :hmm:

FurryDice July 19th, 2010 3:23 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gelowo93 (Post 5570605)
I can't remember off the top of my head which Districts the victors who joined the rebellion were from, but Finnick and Mags came from 4 and I never imagined that district to be as "high up" as 1 and 2 because isn't their industry fishing? It doesn't really compare to District 1's jewel making (I think) IMO.

District 4 is considered one of the Career Districts- they're in the Career Pack, and it's commented on a few times that they're a Career District. I suppose it's odd, as fishing isn't one of the more glamorous industries -but it does lend itself to athletic competitors -people who can swim from a young age, and also who can use nets, weapons, etc. I suppose 1 and 2, referred to as the Capitol's "lapdogs", are Careers because they're treated better than other districts (they're more well fed, so will be better able to build up their strength) and District 4 have plenty of opportunity to train.

Quote:

I've been re-reading the series trying to spot things that might play a larger part in Mockingjay, and I couldn't help noticing how Katniss describes Rue as being very similar to Prim - this is pure speculation but the way Rue's death is described and Katniss's reaction to it could be foreshadowing Prim's death :shrug: That, and the fact that soon after Katniss goes looking for Peeta, made me think that maybe the first Games that Katniss was in could represent the last book in a way, because I think it's likely that Katniss will go looking for Peeta in Mockingjay :hmm:
I don't know if Prim will die - I think it might be a bit repetitive, story-wise for two younger girls to die -especially two girls Katniss sees as very similar. However, Prim seems to grow a lot stronger in CF, with her experiences helping the casualties of the new Peacekeepers.

I think Katniss will want to get away, to find Peeta. She will have a lot of difficulty getting away though - nobody is going to want to let the symbol of hope for the revolution put herself in that kind of danger -rescuing Peeta would mean going to the Capitol itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gelowo93 (Post 5571178)
It's possible that Cinna was involved with the same underground rebellion as Plutarch Heavensbee. When we first see Cinna, Katniss describes him as not being what she expected as someone who was from the Capitol, so it is possible that, as FurryDice said, he was disillusioned with it and joined the rebellion.

If Cinna was a part of the revolutionary group, do you believe his stunt with the dress was under their orders, or something off his own bat? Or is he disillusioned and acting against the Capitol, unaware of the rebellion that's being planned?

Quote:

That could also be why he requested District 12 - we see how the other Districts have stricter security so the rebellion might have targeted District 12 as being the most likely to have someone who was willing to stand up to the Capitol i.e. Katniss.
Maybe, yet District 12 haven't got a good track record in the Games, either. Someone who's willing to defy the Capitol won't be of much use if they're killed at the Cornucopia. Unless he wants to create a memorable martyr.

Quote:

I assumed that they had been part of the underground rebellion and had been discovered, although if that was right they probably would have just been killed. So I quite like your idea that they'd found out something that the Capitol was hiding - maybe they discovered that District 13 still existed, they were part of the rebellion and were on the run trying to get to it? I'm guessing that it's somewhere near District 12 as Bonnie and Twill were heading there as well :hmm:
I had that idea as well - seeing as Bonnie and Twill were in that area. But, if District 13 is near District 12, why was 12 the least stringently controlled district until CF? District 12 is on the fringes of Panem, it seems, and would likely be the nearest to 13, so it doesn't make sense not to better secure the border.

gelowo93 July 19th, 2010 4:51 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FurryDice (Post 5571434)
If Cinna was a part of the revolutionary group, do you believe his stunt with the dress was under their orders, or something off his own bat? Or is he disillusioned and acting against the Capitol, unaware of the rebellion that's being planned?

I think all of the options you've mentioned are possible, we won't find out until we find out more about the rebellion, though. But if he was part of the rebellion I think it's more likely that his stunt with the dress was under orders - or at least known about - because it wouldn't be very good to have Cinna doing whatever he wanted as it could risk them being discovered.


Quote:

Originally Posted by FurryDice (Post 5571434)
I had that idea as well - seeing as Bonnie and Twill were in that area. But, if District 13 is near District 12, why was 12 the least stringently controlled district until CF? District 12 is on the fringes of Panem, it seems, and would likely be the nearest to 13, so it doesn't make sense not to better secure the border.

:hmm: I don't know, maybe because it's cold up there they don't expect anyone to survive long? I don't know squat about where places are in North America so I looked up where the rockies are (I think Katniss mentions that District 12 is near them) and the only thing past them seems to be Alaska, and I'm pretty sure it's cold there :p But you're right - if District 13 is near 12 then it doesn't make sense why the Capitol don't make sure that 12 is secure :shrug:

FurryDice July 20th, 2010 12:27 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gelowo93 (Post 5571735)
I think all of the options you've mentioned are possible, we won't find out until we find out more about the rebellion, though. But if he was part of the rebellion I think it's more likely that his stunt with the dress was under orders - or at least known about - because it wouldn't be very good to have Cinna doing whatever he wanted as it could risk them being discovered.

:lol: Yeah, we'll have to wait for Mockingjay to find out. I don't see why the rebellion would order him to do that though -they would risk information being tortured out of him after that display of defiance. I think it's more likely he was disillusioned with the Capitol for some reason, but not involved in the revolutionary group. I find it interesting that even though he's a stylist, he doesn't have the same over-the-top body decoration as his team, or Capitol citizens in general.

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:hmm: I don't know, maybe because it's cold up there they don't expect anyone to survive long? I don't know squat about where places are in North America so I looked up where the rockies are (I think Katniss mentions that District 12 is near them) and the only thing past them seems to be Alaska, and I'm pretty sure it's cold there :p But you're right - if District 13 is near 12 then it doesn't make sense why the Capitol don't make sure that 12 is secure :shrug:

I think the Capitol was in the Rockies, and District 12 in the Appalachians. There are no mountains mentioned as part of Twelve, though, so perhaps they're in the foothills, or a distance away from the mountains. Thirteen could be on the other side of the mountains, so not easy to access on foot.

HMN July 20th, 2010 3:06 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FurryDice
If Cinna was a part of the revolutionary group, do you believe his stunt with the dress was under their orders, or something off his own bat? Or is he disillusioned and acting against the Capitol, unaware of the rebellion that's being planned?

Cinna, Cinna, Cinna I hope we get to see more of him.
I think that he's rebelling on his own. I say this because 1. his dress/style. He doesn't do all the outlandish things that the others do like dying his hair and skin. He rebells in that way already saying my own natural look is style enough. I get the sense that he is from another district initially and perhaps the Capitol recruited him when he was young because they saw his talent. Or he's just plain old sick of the Games and wanted to do his part to 'change it up' by taking the weakest competitors and making them shine.

I also find his character as a commentary on wealth in general. There are the McMansion types to the Donald Trump types where people try to display their wealth for all to envy. Then there are those who have a lot of money, keep quiet about it and actually do good things by it - like set up charities and funds. I think it wan't an accident that Octavia and Flavius are so overly gaudy while Cinna is elegant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FurryDice
District 4 is considered one of the Career Districts- they're in the Career Pack, and it's commented on a few times that they're a Career District. I suppose it's odd, as fishing isn't one of the more glamorous industries -but it does lend itself to athletic competitors -people who can swim from a young age, and also who can use nets, weapons, etc.

I think they are careers because they can be. They can 'train' without it seeming like training. It might be more that they are skilled competitors and not so much the volunteering to jump in type.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gelowo93 (Post 5571735)
:hmm: I don't know, maybe because it's cold up there they don't expect anyone to survive long? I don't know squat about where places are in North America so I looked up where the rockies are (I think Katniss mentions that District 12 is near them) and the only thing past them seems to be Alaska, and I'm pretty sure it's cold there :p But you're right - if District 13 is near 12 then it doesn't make sense why the Capitol don't make sure that 12 is secure :shrug:

I think it has been implied that District 13 is past 12, or at least you have to get through 12 to get to 13. I say this because of Bonnie and Twill and because of the Red haired Avox and the person she was running away with. I feel that they may have been headed for 13 also. District 12 is more in the South Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Kentucky area, as that is where there are coal mines in the US.

This map of Appalachia shows the eastern coast of the us:


Suzanne Collins has said that the districts aren't in numerical order, but I get the sense that they are numbered in order of value (1 being the precious metals and jewels).

Also since most of the coasts of the US were supposed to have been taken out by flooding and other forms of destructions, I think that New England and Florida may not exist in Panem. I think the upper part of New York State would be a candidate for district 13. I think that she may have the textiles coming from the South where we historically had cotton plantations in Mississippi, Georgia, Alabama area. That would have Bonnie and Twill moving from the South through Appalachia heading towards the North to District 12.

I get the sense that District 11 (agriculture) is in the Mid-West - the Ohio and west area (on the map, the states to the left of Ohio) because all the way to Iowa is where a lot of farm land is currently.

I don't think geography is really going to play any part in Mockingjay, but I like to try to figure out how she mapped it out. :)

gelowo93 July 21st, 2010 1:27 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FurryDice (Post 5571996)
:lol: Yeah, we'll have to wait for Mockingjay to find out. I don't see why the rebellion would order him to do that though -they would risk information being tortured out of him after that display of defiance.

Good point, it's probably more likely that he would have been acting on his own then. I thought he might have been involved because he always seems to be in on Haymitch's plans eg. having Katniss wear the more "girly" dress at the end of HG, and wasn't Haymitch part of the rebellion from the start?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FurryDice (Post 5571996)
I think it's more likely he was disillusioned with the Capitol for some reason, but not involved in the revolutionary group. I find it interesting that even though he's a stylist, he doesn't have the same over-the-top body decoration as his team, or Capitol citizens in general.

His lack of over-the-top make up, plastic surgery etc. is what made me think he was disillusioned with the Capitol because that seems to be a defining characteristic of all of the Capitol citizens. Plus, he doesn't put up with the prep team being all emotional in CF, so, as HMN says, he could be from another district - but it would have to be one of the higher up districts, like 1 or 2 for him to have been noticed by the Capitol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HMN (Post 5572280)
I don't think geography is really going to play any part in Mockingjay, but I like to try to figure out how she mapped it out.

I don't either, but I think it would be interesting to find out where she planned all of the districts to be.

Beatifically July 25th, 2010 6:53 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by baseballblondie (Post 5570621)
Another thought is what prompted him, with his talents, to request District 12?

Suzanne Collins answered this, actually :D

Burning Question for Suzanne CollinsQuestion: Is there a reason Cinna picked District 12?

Answer: Many of the other stylists have had claim to other districts for years, and Cinna, being relatively new and unknown, looked to 12 as both a challenge and an opportunity, a district that has been essentially ignored and poorly represented from a fashion and design point of view. He knew he could make the greatest mark there—and with Katniss he finds a willing collaborator.

Source.

If Cinna wasn't interested in the rebellion earlier, then I think he was when he found out about the Quarter Quell, along with majority of others. The Capitol thought it was their last chance at preventing a revolution, but it was the one push that the rebels needed because it convinced the people normally sympathetic to the Capitol to realize that something needed to be changed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FurryDice (Post 5571434)
I had that idea as well - seeing as Bonnie and Twill were in that area. But, if District 13 is near District 12, why was 12 the least stringently controlled district until CF? District 12 is on the fringes of Panem, it seems, and would likely be the nearest to 13, so it doesn't make sense not to better secure the border.

I think they had been once strict about the borders but once they realized they had successfully made it clear that District 12 would stand no chance by escaping, they loosened the security measures. The Capitol and Peacemakers probably successfully brainwashed District 12 into thinking there was no escape.

Or another possibility is that the security only loosened up when Cray became Head Peacemaker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HMN (Post 5572280)
District 12 is more in the South Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Kentucky area, as that is where there are coal mines in the US.

In a reading, Suzanne Collins changed her accent while reading The Hunger Games to a Southern accent. District 12 must be a bit South. This would explain why Katniss was confused by the different accents when she went to the Capitol.

HMN July 28th, 2010 5:29 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Beatifically (Post 5575568)
If Cinna wasn't interested in the rebellion earlier, then I think he was when he found out about the Quarter Quell, along with majority of others. The Capitol thought it was their last chance at preventing a revolution, but it was the one push that the rebels needed because it convinced the people normally sympathetic to the Capitol to realize that something needed to be changed.

thanks for the answer to that. It seems that he became a bit attached to Katniss and Peeta too. I think that could have caused him to become reckless as well.

Quote:

Or another possibility is that the security only loosened up when Cray became Head Peacemaker.
I recall Katniss explaining that the Peacekeepers were hungry along with everyone else. They wanted the fresh game and berries just as much as the sellers in the market. It seemed to me that D12 was the forgotten district.

Quote:

In a reading, Suzanne Collins changed her accent while reading The Hunger Games to a Southern accent. District 12 must be a bit South. This would explain why Katniss was confused by the different accents when she went to the Capitol.
Yeah, I think it's not quite Mississippi or Alabama southern, but more West Virginia southern.

HMN July 29th, 2010 10:30 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Less than a month until Mockingjay! I thought I'd add another discussion question to the thread.

Why are all citizens of Panem required to watch The Hunger Games on television? How does this affect the people? Why haven't they rebelled earlier against the brutality of the Games? Discuss the effect of television and reality TV in your own life.

FurryDice July 29th, 2010 11:35 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Beatifically (Post 5575568)
If Cinna wasn't interested in the rebellion earlier, then I think he was when he found out about the Quarter Quell, along with majority of others. The Capitol thought it was their last chance at preventing a revolution, but it was the one push that the rebels needed because it convinced the people normally sympathetic to the Capitol to realize that something needed to be changed.

I think that's a possibility - there were comments to that effect in CF, that the people in the Capitol got attached to their victors. They could watch the deaths of unknown children as a form of entertainment, but seeing people they think they know murdered is a different experience, and probably pushed people in the Capitol to see things differently, at least somewhat.


Quote:

Originally Posted by HMN (Post 5579042)
Why are all citizens of Panem required to watch The Hunger Games on television? How does this affect the people? Why haven't they rebelled earlier against the brutality of the Games? Discuss the effect of television and reality TV in your own life.

I think it's likely to be largely for the reason Katniss speculated - to remind people in the Districts how powerless they are against the Capitol. I think the horror of watching loved ones die in that way is a way of keeping the people of the Districts too downtrodden and miserable to oppose them. I think that for a family to be forced to watch their child die in those circumstances, and be helpless to intervene is just terrifying. I think it probably creates a lot of emotional and mental health problems - such as is implied with Madge's mother.

It seems that people are regularly reminded of the official version of what happened to District 13 on television. People may fear the same thing happening to their district if they rebel against the Games. Within a district, many people would need to rise up, if it were to have any effect.
Also, communication between the districts is practically non-existent -there would be little benefit in a district putting themselves in that kind of danger if they were certain to be the only target for destruction. I wonder why more people haven't chosen the path Katniss wants to take - not have children, so they won't be in danger of being sent to the Games.

As for tv, I'll think on that one.

baseballblondie July 30th, 2010 5:06 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

posted by HMN Why are all citizens of Panem required to watch The Hunger Games on television? How does this affect the people? Why haven't they rebelled earlier against the brutality of the Games? Discuss the effect of television and reality TV in your own life.
I also think it's the Capitol's way of showing the citizens that they (the people) are really not important. And that it is a vivid reminder of how controlling the Capitol is. Almost like the Third Reich.

I think that they've not rebelled sooner because they were afraid. THey didn't see the point. Until Katniss accidently breathed hope into their hearts.

Reality TV and me - well I am a Survivor fan. But I really don't like the backstabbing in it. Give me the Amazing Race any day. Travel and fun challenges without the obvious pitting one against another like Survivor.

Bella_Crucio_U August 4th, 2010 10:28 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Okay remember when I said I though Gale would die saving Katniss in a social group post? Well I have another option. Maybe Gale will end up with Madge? Anyone think of that? So I think he'll either die or end up with Madge. I really hope he doesn't end up with Katniss because they are too good of friends and that's all they are meant to be in my eyes. Sorry for the randomness. Mockingjay in 19 days!! :D

HMN August 11th, 2010 3:07 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bella_Crucio_U (Post 5583227)
Well I have another option. Maybe Gale will end up with Madge?

I have heard people speculate that, and I wouldn't be surprised. One would think that the Mayor's daughter got out ok. I can even see the Mayor and his family helping out with the rebellion.

(ps. I love the new avi! AVPM is totally awesome. :) )

Quote:

Originally Posted by baseballblondie (Post 5579345)
Reality TV and me - well I am a Survivor fan. But I really don't like the backstabbing in it. Give me the Amazing Race any day. Travel and fun challenges without the obvious pitting one against another like Survivor.

:lol: I love the Amazing Race. I only like reality shows that are productive - like Project Runway or Top Chef or Amazing Race. I feel like it's more about achieving than just being a personality.

As for the discussion question - I think it's pretty horrifying to have to watch members of your family or your friends try to fight for their lives. And not being able to communicate with them or help in anyway. I mean, I guess the 'sponsoring' of a tribute through the community is one way to help, but some of the districts are so poor that they can't even do that.

I think the capitol was playing with fire by forcing the games to happen every year. I read on a thread on another board someone mentioning that if the games only happened every few years the citizens would become complacent between Games. That they then wouldn't be as hateful of the Capitol. The constant reminder to the district citizens seems a sure fire way of causing rebellion. Which the capitol seems to know because they try to use the result of D13's rebellion as the antidote to the people rising up.

Bella_Crucio_U August 12th, 2010 2:46 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

(ps. I love the new avi! AVPM is totally awesome. )
Thanks :)

So apparently Andrew Sims got a copy of Mockingjay already. I think it's funny how people hate him now on some sites. I really don't care as long as he doesn't spoil it which he won't.

13 days!! I'm super excited!

HMN August 12th, 2010 8:48 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I was just at Barnes & Noble and found out that Suzanne Collins is doing a book signing on August 24th on Long Island (NY) right near my mom's house where I am staying this week. They have a bracelet system and the poster said they expect a big crowd. I won't be able to go though because we're going out of town on the 21st.

Oh, and looking at Mockingjay.net I see that she has a lot of book dates. The midnight release party at Books of Wonder is so close to my house. Total bummer. Here are the dates for anyone who is interested:
http://mockingjay.net/2010/08/03/suz...full-schedule/

I know it's no HP release party, but still, would have been really great to go to.

FurryDice August 13th, 2010 1:58 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bella_Crucio_U (Post 5583227)
Okay remember when I said I though Gale would die saving Katniss in a social group post? Well I have another option. Maybe Gale will end up with Madge? Anyone think of that? So I think he'll either die or end up with Madge. I really hope he doesn't end up with Katniss because they are too good of friends and that's all they are meant to be in my eyes. Sorry for the randomness. Mockingjay in 19 days!! :D

I can see Gale and Madge, yeah. Hopefully they'll both survive, but I think there will be casualties with the Capitol so bent on subduing the rebellion and with President Snow holding Katniss responsible for inciting it. I can see Katniss losing people close to her in Mockingjay.

Quote:

I think the capitol was playing with fire by forcing the games to happen every year. I read on a thread on another board someone mentioning that if the games only happened every few years the citizens would become complacent between Games. That they then wouldn't be as hateful of the Capitol. The constant reminder to the district citizens seems a sure fire way of causing rebellion. Which the capitol seems to know because they try to use the result of D13's rebellion as the antidote to the people rising up.
I think that's a good point. Sooner or later, people were going to be pushed too far. However, the Capitol had other ways of preventing people rebelling. There was a lack of communication between the districts; people were kept malnourished and downtrodden, except in the Career Districts, especially 1 and 2, it seems. Plus, there were plenty of people who had got to the stage of just not caring any more, like those who were taking bets at the Reaping.

GinnyIsGenius August 19th, 2010 12:52 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I'm really excited for Mockingjay. Really trying to keep my mind open as the release date approaches. I'm currently listening to the audiobooks to refresh my mind. I'm on Catching Fire right now.

I hate the Team talk, :lol: Maybe because I have not jumped on the Saint Peeta train yet. I really don't why is it, but part of me expects something more from Peeta than being the selfless, good-natured boy-with-bread that loves Katniss. I'm expecting a big surprise out of him in Mockingjay.

I connect more with Gale as a character. He has a more round personality for my taste, and I found him to be very much like Katniss. I like their unspoken connection.

They both have been there for Katniss. Gale throughout the struggle of their every day life (Chp 8 of HG is a very insightful chapter on their relationship), and Peeta throughout the Games and, inevitably, afterward. The strong emotional ties for both are meant to be there because of the hard things she has have to experience with them. That's why it's so hard to sort feelings out while they are still in the middle of the mess. BUT since to me the romance aspect of the plot is complete dependent on the results of the rebellion, on who will survive or not, as well as on the information we are yet to know, I'll refrain myself from making further judgment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FurryDice (Post 5588793)
But I think there will be casualties with the Capitol so bent on subduing the rebellion and with President Snow holding Katniss responsible for inciting it. I can see Katniss losing people close to her in Mockingjay.

I believe so too. I would also add that both Peeta and Gale are big contenders for that end. :whistle:

Frankly, my faith is on Suzanne Collins and her writing. I hope she'll serve the story before anything else, even if it'll be hard to see our characters go. I'll be destroyed, but story first, sentimentalisms for the Epilogue, please.
*gets Breaking Dawn tics*
:scared:

ANYHOW

I'm really interest to know how far back the rebellion plans go, who were involve, who knew more than Katniss, and how much? Even Gale and Peeta could be somehow involve to some extent (massive speculation here! :elaugh:). There is so much we don't know because Katniss is just realizing that a rebellion has been blowing up in throughout Panem thanks (and unbeknown) to her. Katniss' berries move and the Quarter Quell were the catalysts, but how was the reaction set in motion? Who has been working for this behind the scenes?

We don't know much about District 13 and what has been happening there. I can even began to explain how curios I am. I'm expecting a bunch of surprises from District 13.

Haymitch is one of my favorites in the books. I love Haymitch (even if that makes me weird) because he knows a lot more than we think he does, and he's a lot wiser than we think he is. Oh, yes, he is trouble. :elaugh:

FurryDice August 20th, 2010 1:39 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GinnyIsGenius (Post 5592513)
I hate the Team talk, :lol: Maybe because I have not jumped on the Saint Peeta train yet. I really don't why is it, but part of me expects something more from Peeta than being the selfless, good-natured boy-with-bread that loves Katniss. I'm expecting a big surprise out of him in Mockingjay.

I'm not crazy about the Team stuff either. Mainly because I'm much more interested in finding out who survives to end up with anyone at all, and whether the rebellion will be successful. I'd love to see something unexpected from Peeta, too.

Quote:

Frankly, my faith is on Suzanne Collins and her writing. I hope she'll serve the story before anything else, even if it'll be hard to see our characters go. I'll be destroyed, but story first, sentimentalisms for the Epilogue, please.
Agree, the story doesn't need loads of sentimentality. (Although I'm hoping the ending isn't something downbeat, like Orwell.)

Quote:

I'm really interest to know how far back the rebellion plans go, who were involve, who knew more than Katniss, and how much? Even Gale and Peeta could be somehow involve to some extent (massive speculation here! :elaugh:). There is so much we don't know because Katniss is just realizing that a rebellion has been blowing up in throughout Panem thanks (and unbeknown) to her. Katniss' berries move and the Quarter Quell were the catalysts, but how was the reaction set in motion? Who has been working for this behind the scenes?
:hmm: I'm not mad about the theory that practically everyone apart from Katniss knew what was going on in terms of the plans. I know she was fairly oblivious in CF (wanting to go off and incite a rebellion, not realising that she'd already done that!), but I don't like the idea that everyone she trusts could have deceived her like that. As a catalyst, did Katniss' stunt with the berries push forward the planned rebellion? It was something that showed the citizens that they could defy the Capitol, that they did have a chance to defy the odds. Or, do you think the leaders of the underground movement orchestrated a situation where someone would publicly defy the Capitol and inspire the people to rebel? I think it's possible but even then, there's no guarantee on how people will act once they're manoeuvred into a situation.

We don't know much about District 13 and what has been happening there. I can even began to explain how curios I am. I'm expecting a bunch of surprises from District 13.

Quote:

Haymitch is one of my favorites in the books. I love Haymitch (even if that makes me weird) because he knows a lot more than we think he does, and he's a lot wiser than we think he is. Oh, yes, he is trouble. :elaugh:

Haymitch is a great character. :tu: He's funny, and he's very interesting. I think he's not as blindly addicted to alcohol as he seems. For one thing, he's able to deal effectively with sponsors, and get the messages to Katniss in the arena. And his involvement in the revolution suggests it's possibly a front, too - he's not going to come under too much suspicion if he only seems capable of making a fool of himself. On the other hand, it fits the pattern of former victors turning to ways to distract themselves from the memories of the arena.

GinnyIsGenius August 20th, 2010 4:32 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FurryDice (Post 5593105)
:hmm: I'm not mad about the theory that practically everyone apart from Katniss knew what was going on in terms of the plans. I know she was fairly oblivious in CF (wanting to go off and incite a rebellion, not realising that she'd already done that!), but I don't like the idea that everyone she trusts could have deceived her like that.

Oh, I don't like it either. Not on such absolute level. Especially when talking about Gale, who seems to be a popular theory in the webzzzz because of his vocal pro-rebellion leanings. As for Peeta, that would definitely give him the substance I think his character is lacking ... but maybe that's just my Peeta paranoia speaking. :whistle:

Quote:

Originally Posted by FurryDice (Post 5593105)
As a catalyst, did Katniss' stunt with the berries push forward the planned rebellion? It was something that showed the citizens that they could defy the Capitol, that they did have a chance to defy the odds. Or, do you think the leaders of the underground movement orchestrated a situation where someone would publicly defy the Capitol and inspire the people to rebel? I think it's possible but even then, there's no guarantee on how people will act once they're maneuvered into a situation.

See this is where it gets tricky...

I think revolutions are orchestrated, they have to be organized, at least to some level, in order to work and be successful. This is not done in a couple of month. I believe is very possible that something had been in the works already for God knows how many years before. Not in a extremely calculated way, 'cause like you said, no one could predict how people are going to respond. But I do believe the berries stunt helped rallying Panem together, and that the "rebellion front" jumped at the opportunity.

Do I believe the first games were set-up by the "revolution front"? Frankly, no. Do I believe there IS a rebellion front that had been working towards a revolution, before Katniss ever thought of the berries? I'm leaning for YES. Even Katniss is aware that they need someone to direct them.

Who is part of this rebellion front? I have no idea ... other than the obvious choice, Plutarch and Haymitch. But I don't think either of them are at the top of the chain. It could be anyone really! Then add the others characters have joined the movement as the story developed. Cinna, for example (if indeed he asked for District 12 with no other intention than to prove himself as a stylist), or Finnick, and the other victors. IMO, Haymitch could go either way.

I think District 13 will be key on this topic as well.

John Granger (Potter Pundit) has a HUGE theory running around about it being Madge's mother and District 12 mayor's wife (who we have only heard of until now) being the "true Mockingjay", as he calls her. He points out lots of reason, but mainly (1) she has access to information, thanks to her husband's status, and (2) her twin sister (Haymitch former love) was a victim of the Games. Curiosly enough, the Mockingjay pin belonged to her before it was given to Katniss, and the family's name is Undersee.

He expands quite a lot on his theory. It's quite exhausting, but it's interesting to see how he connects the dots according to his interpretation. He calls it 'The Pearl Plot'.

You can read his complete set of posts Hunger Games Post at HogwartsProfesor.com there, if you're interested. I recommend starting in the older entries.

I don't agree completely with them, especially once he tried to expand and make it bigger, including almost every character into it, but I believe he is going to get a bunch of stuff right.


ETA: HUGE NEWS!

The first chapter of Mockingjay has become available at Audible.com Facebook Page in its audio format!!!!

ETA: OH! :( Seems like it has been taken down. Only managed to listen 8 minutes of it.

FurryDice August 21st, 2010 1:35 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GinnyIsGenius (Post 5593160)
Oh, I don't like it either. Not on such absolute level. Especially when talking about Gale, who seems to be a popular theory in the webzzzz because of his vocal pro-rebellion leanings. As for Peeta, that would definitely give him the substance I think his character is lacking ... but maybe that's just my Peeta paranoia speaking. :whistle:

I certainly don't think Peeta is as innocent and straightforward as he's portrayed. He did kill the girl who lit the fire, the one that Cato thought he'd killed. And while all the other victors in CF have kiled, too, I think it's overlooked, even by them - Finnick reckons that Peeta's not like the rest of them, that he won the Games out of luck, rather than anything else. I think he could be quite determined, with something to motivate him -as in HG. It could be well into Mockingjay before we find out what happened to him, unless the rebels are able to find out from inside sources in the Capitol.

As for Gale's involvement, I don't think he'd have the patience to sit and wait if he knew District 13 was real, that something real was being planned against the Capitol. His anger against the Capitol lends itself much more to immediate action, not slow-burning plans.

Quote:

I think revolutions are orchestrated, they have to be organized, at least to some level, in order to work and be successful. This is not done in a couple of month. I believe is very possible that something had been in the works already for God knows how many years before. Not in a extremely calculated way, 'cause like you said, no one could predict how people are going to respond. But I do believe the berries stunt brought Panem together, and that the "rebellion front" jumped at the opportunity.

Do I believe the first games were set up by the "revolution front"? Frankly, no. Do I believe there IS a rebellion front that had been working towards a revolution, before Katniss ever thought of the berries? I'm leaning for YES. Even Katniss is aware that they need someone to direct them.
I totally agree that the rebellion had been planned for a long time -according to what Haymitch tells Katniss at the end of CF, it's been going on for years. What I find hard to believe is that they orchestrated the situation where a tribute would defy the Capitol. I can believe that Plutarch Heavensbee might have influenced Seneca Crane to let both Katniss and Peeta live, if the Gamemakers were together at the time. I agree that the revolutionary group saw an opportunity and capitalised on it.

Quote:

Who is part of this rebellion front? I have no idea ... other than the obvious choice, Plutarch. But I don't think neither of them are at the top of the chain. It could be anyone really! Then add the others characters have joined the movement as the story developed. Cinna, for example (if indeed he asked for District 12 with no other intention than to prove himself as a stylist), or Finnick, and the other victors. IMO, Haymitch could go either way.
I wonder if the tv interviewer (Caesar Flickerman, I think) is involved, or at least sympathetic. In HG, he seemed to be aware there was a lot on the line, that Katniss needed to prove that she acted out of love, not defiance. And in CF, he seemed aware that the Mockingjay was more than a token. (A lot of the Capitol people were probably oblivious, like the stylists, believing what they were told about shortages being due to storms). The victors who were involved in the plot to protect Katniss and Peeta/escape from the arena were probably involved in the group. It's possible that other victors, who weren't selected, also knew something.

Quote:

John Granger (Potter Pundit) has a HUGE theory running around about it being Madge's mother and District 12 mayor's wife (who we have only heard of until now) being the "true Mockingjay", as he calls her. He points out lots of reason, but mainly (1) she has access to information, thanks to her husband's status, and (2) her twin sister (Haymitch former love) was a victim of the Games. Curiosly enough, the Mockingjay pin belonged to her before it was given to Katniss, and the family's name is Undersee.
Quote:

He expands quite a lot on his theory. It's quite exhausting, but it's interesting to see how he connects the dots according to his interpretation. He calls it 'The Pearl Plot'.

You can read his complete set of posts Hunger Games Post at HogwartsProfesor.com there, if you're interested. I recommend starting in the older entries.

I don't agree completely with them, especially once he tried to expand and make it bigger, including almost every character into it, but I believe he is going to get a bunch of stuff right.
That's actually where I read the theory that everyone except Katniss knew what was going planned. I agree, he makes some good points, and he has some good theories. I don't know if Madge's mother is the brains behind it all, it's an interesting theory, though -and yeah, very symbolic, given the Mockingjay pin. I think he's very right about the Reaping being easily rigged, though. And I also think that Katniss' father was probably thinking about the Games as well as providing food when he trained her to hunt and shoot with a bow and arrow. He couldn't protect his daughter from the Reaping, but he could give her a better shot at survival, if she was selected. (Prim might also have been trained to use a bow and arrow if he'd survuved that long)

Quote:

ETA: HUGE NEWS!

The first chapter of Mockingjay has become available at Audible.com Facebook Page in its audio format!!!!

ETA: OH! :( Seems like it has been taken down. Only managed to listen 8 minutes of it.
Ooh exciting! I can't decide if I want to know or if I want to completely avoid spoilers! :hmm:

GinnyIsGenius August 21st, 2010 4:56 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FurryDice (Post 5593640)
I certainly don't think Peeta is as innocent and straightforward as he's portrayed. He did kill the girl who lit the fire, the one that Cato thought he'd killed. And while all the other victors in CF have killed, too, I think it's overlooked, even by them - Finnick reckons that Peeta's not like the rest of them, that he won the Games out of luck, rather than anything else. I think he could be quite determined, with something to motivate him -as in HG. It could be well into Mockingjay before we find out what happened to him, unless the rebels are able to find out from inside sources in the Capitol.

Wow, it makes me so happy to read this. This is pretty much what I think too. I have never been fully trustful of Peeta for some reason. I think there's more to him than the persona he presents. Not meaning that he is evil or anything, of course, :lol: or that his feelings for Katniss are not real, but I do think he has been susing his charisma on the Games for more reasons than we are aware of... I've never seen him as straightforward, :shrug:. He presents himself so well, so measured, like Katniss said "nothing throws him off". I've always thought there's more behind his unfaltering behavior. That's why I jokingly call him Saint Peeta. :lol:

And yes, not only the characters are overlook it, but maybe us readers are meant to do so. It's even hard to consider because he is such a good person (I don't believe that is going to change regardless). In Gale's words: "It'd be better if he were easier to hate." :lol: But yeah, I think Peeta may very well be deep-seated within the rebellion plans or that at least play a role in it, from the beginning (HG) even. And maybe that's why I think he is may not survive the end. (YES, I SAID IT!)

I'm currently listening to CF's audiobook, and I had to smile on Chapter 9 when Katniss is musing about District 12 rebelling, but that they'd need someone to direct them are reassure the District it was possible.

Katniss then says "Someone with clear and persuasive words ... words ... I think of words and I think of Peeta. How people embrace everything he says. He could move a crowd to action, I bet. If he chose to. He'd find the things to say, but I'm sure the idea has never crossed his mind."


Oh Katniss, I think it may just have.



Quote:

Originally Posted by FurryDice (Post 5593640)
As for Gale's involvement, I don't think he'd have the patience to sit and wait if he knew District 13 was real, that something real was being planned against the Capitol. His anger against the Capitol lends itself much more to immediate action, not slow-burning plans.

Again, I agree! That's my impression too.
To me, Gale is the straightforward of the two. Him being vocal about his feelings towards the Capitol (and everything else) only back it up. I got the feeling he is more transparent, for better or worse. I think Gale's involvement in the rebellion began at some point during the second-half of CF. I don't believe it could have happen before his whipping.


Quote:

Originally Posted by FurryDice (Post 5593640)
I totally agree that the rebellion had been planned for a long time -according to what Haymitch tells Katniss at the end of CF, it's been going on for years. What I find hard to believe is that they orchestrated the situation where a tribute would defy the Capitol. I can believe that Plutarch Heavensbee might have influenced Seneca Crane to let both Katniss and Peeta live, if the Gamemakers were together at the time. I agree that the revolutionary group saw an opportunity and capitalised on it.

Exactly. What set off the rebelling spark was not that Katniss got chose to be in the Games, but the moment when she held out the berries. That could've NEVER been orchestrated by any group, much less without Katniss being aware of the situation.



Quote:

Originally Posted by FurryDice (Post 5593640)
I wonder if the tv interviewer (Caesar Flickerman, I think) is involved, or at least sympathetic. In HG, he seemed to be aware there was a lot on the line, that Katniss needed to prove that she acted out of love, not defiance. And in CF, he seemed aware that the Mockingjay was more than a token. (A lot of the Capitol people were probably oblivious, like the stylists, believing what they were told about shortages being due to storms). The victors who were involved in the plot to protect Katniss and Peeta/escape from the arena were probably involved in the group. It's possible that other victors, who weren't selected, also knew something.

Someone has speculated that Effie's insistence (even compulsion) handling the schedule and keeping everyone on time was so a lot of clandestine meetings with could happen around the Districts. Though Effie would've to be a GREAT actress for that to be real.

FurryDice August 22nd, 2010 1:40 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GinnyIsGenius (Post 5593763)
Wow, it makes me so happy to read this. This is pretty much what I think too. I have never been fully trustful of Peeta for some reason. I think there's more to him than the persona he presents. Not meaning that he is evil or anything, of course, :lol: or that his feelings for Katniss are not real, but I do think he has been susing his charisma on the Games for more reasons than we are aware of... I've never seen him as straightforward, :shrug:. He presents himself so well, so measured, like Katniss said "nothing throws him off". I've always thought there's more behind his unfaltering behavior. That's why I jokingly call him Saint Peeta. :lol:

And yes, not only the characters are overlook it, but maybe us readers are meant to do so. It's even hard to consider because he is such a good person (I don't believe that is going to change regardless). In Gale's words: "It'd be better if he were easier to hate." :lol: But yeah, I think Peeta may very well be deep-seated within the rebellion plans or that at least play a role in it, from the beginning (HG) even. And maybe that's why I think he is may not survive the end. (YES, I SAID IT!)

Peeta was playing a tactical game when he brought his feelings for Katniss into it, but I'm not sure if I can see him being involved in the rebellion prior to the Games, and really not as a major player in the rebel group. I might be proven totally wrong in a few days, but I just can't see why a teenager would already be very influential within the rebel group.

I think he's one of the good guys, but I agree that there's a lot going on beneath the madly-in-love image.

Quote:

Katniss then says "Someone with clear and persuasive words ... words ... I think of words and I think of Peeta. How people embrace everything he says. He could move a crowd to action, I bet. If he chose to. He'd find the things to say, but I'm sure the idea has never crossed his mind."


Oh Katniss, I think it may just have.
:lol: She really should have known better there, as she knows how he played up the love angle in the Games, starting with his interview. I think his feelings for Katniss are genuine, but I also think he made use of them, playing to the crowd.

Quote:

Again, I agree! That's my impression too.
To me, Gale is the straightforward of the two. Him being vocal about his feelings towards the Capitol (and everything else) only back it up. I got the feeling he is more transparent, for better or worse. I think Gale's involvement in the rebellion began at some point during the second-half of CF. I don't believe it could have happen before his whipping.
Yeah, Gale is very direct. I suppose his presence with the rebels at the end of CF suggests he got involved somehow in the rebellion. But, why would Haymitch (and whoever else in District 12 is involved) fill him in on the plans? Was there something particular he could do for them? Would it have been safe to bring someone else into the plans, without a very good reason?Especially as Gale could potentially be a bit of a loose cannon, imo, if he didn't think plans were progressing quickly enough, or if people he cared about were in danger in the short term.

Quote:

Exactly. What set off the rebelling spark was not that Katniss got chose to be in the Games, but the moment when she held out the berries. That could've NEVER been orchestrated by any group, much less without Katniss being aware of the situation.
Yes, it was something even Katniss herself didn't think of until the last minute. The Gamemakers, or the rebels within the Gamemakers, couldn't have anticipated that she'd react in that way to the u-turn with the rules.

Quote:

Someone has speculated that Effie's insistence (even compulsion) handling the schedule and keeping everyone on time was so a lot of clandestine meetings with could happen around the Districts. Though Effie would've to be a GREAT actress for that to be real.
Effie? I can't picture it. I think she's a bit like Cinna's style team, in that she doesn't comprehend what things are like in the Districts, and she's completely wrapped up in the Capitol lifestyle. (Although the Quarter Quell woke some of the Capitol citizens up to what the Games are actually like for everyone else.)

GinnyIsGenius August 23rd, 2010 3:44 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FurryDice (Post 5594346)
Peeta was playing a tactical game when he brought his feelings for Katniss into it, but I'm not sure if I can see him being involved in the rebellion prior to the Games, and really not as a major player in the rebel group. I might be proven totally wrong in a few days, but I just can't see why a teenager would already be very influential within the rebel group.

Because Peeta has skillz! :lol: People skills. Charisma. He is not like the rest of us, he is special, and he is such a good liar (paraphrasing Katniss in CF). This is the ONLY thing we know about Peeta besides his feelings for Katniss. It has been overly pointed out throughout the books, how he is good with words, how he influences a crowd. We have seen him in action and it still keeps getting mentioned. Almost as if we need to keep it in mind, that we must not forget it. Maybe it felt that way because I've been listening to the books back-to-back, but it certainly makes me think that we are yet to see something come out of that fact.

I had not seriously considered it myself (meaning "Peeta being involved in the rebellion") until I read this post:

Posted by Kimberly Church in hogwartsprofessor.com
You guys are hot on the ball when it comes to insight and analysis, so I decided to re-read, and take note of some of ideas I’ve read, and the only thing that stands out to me that I didn’t see before was the relationship Peeta has with all the Rebel Primes, (the name I have for people who are obviously involved in the rebellion, or the storyboard for the rebellion). I consider the Primes to be people like Haymitch, Cinna, Finnick, etc.

We obviously know that Cinna is an involved “Prime” but for some reason, uncomfortable with his involvement, and that is curious. Maybe because his marked acts are more obvious acts of rebellion, and this stands out.

p.48: “You’re new, aren’t you? I don’t think I’ve seen you before,” I say. Most of the stylists are familiar, constants in the ever-changing pool of tributes. Some have been around my whole life. “Yes, this is my first year in the Games,” says Cinna.

Right before the opening ceremonies, p.50, “…everyone is absolutely giddy with excitement over what a splash we’ll make. Except Cinna. He just seems a bit weary as he accepts congratulations.”

What is curious is that at first, it doesn’t seem that Cinna and Haymitch are part of the same rebellion, which goes to say that either the “network” isn’t in communication yet. p. 58 “Whose idea was the hand holding?” asks Haymitch. “Cinna’s,” says Portia. “Just the perfect touch of rebellion,” says Haymitch. “Very nice.” Rebellion? I have to think about that one a moment.

Now stick with me…here comes the part with Peeta…

After Katniss sees the red-headed Avox for the first time, Peeta recognizes that she wants to talk and then says something I didn’t catch the first time on p.61, “Peeta picks up on my hesitation. “Have you been on the roof yet?” I shake my head. “Cinna showed me. You can practically see the whole city. The wind’s a bit loud, though.” I translate this into “no one will overhear us talking” in my head.”

The question I have here is why did Cinna need to speak in private to Peeta? He isn’t Peeta’s stylist…Portia is. Loud giveaway…how did I miss this the first time?

Then when Katniss asks if they were being taped on the roof, Peeta replies on p.61, “Maybe,” he admits. “come see the garden.” On the other side of the dome, they’ve built a garden with flower beds and potted trees. From the branches hang hundreds of wind chimes, which account for the tinkling I head. Here in the garden, on this windy night, it’s enough to drown out two people who are trying not to be heard. Peeta looks at me expectantly.”

Not only did Cinna “show” Peeta the roof, he showed him a place to speak in private…what did Cinna need to tell Peeta in private? Perhaps he saw Peeta take initiative with the hand-holding during opening ceremonies and decided to let him in on the plan…or perhaps Peeta is the go-between for Cinna and Haymitch…

Either way, Peeta has come a long way from the boy who cried hard at the reaping, to the boy who suddenly has a calm resolve at the opening ceremonies, the tribute training, just chilling out in the mud, on the train during their victory tour…the juxtaposition is too much to suggest that such a significant change could happen just like that. Anyway…just my two cents. What do you think about Peeta?

Source


I guess she makes her case for both Peeta and Cinna here.

I've been listening to CF trying to keep my ears out for Peeta and his reactions and dialogue throughout, and if his involvement turns out to be true, I'm going to do flips. :lol: It's so masterfully written. It could work if Peeta is using his skills for all their worth, even when we don't think he is using them. He doesn't need to be in the known of every single detail of the rebel plans, exactly. The QQ victors from 3, 4, 6, 7, 8 and 11 all had "varying degrees" of knowledge, and we know from Haymitch that Peeta was left out from the QQ plans as a form of precaution because they knew he would be one of the first the Capitol would try to catch along with Katniss. But he could have known just enough to know what to do and who to trust. He is a natural, after all.

Of course, this not be the only way we could see Peeta's talents come into play. But I'm sure hoping to see something, anything, from his character that we wouldn't necessarily be expecting. I would really love that.


Quote:

Originally Posted by FurryDice (Post 5594346)
:lol: She really should have known better there, as she knows how he played up the love angle in the Games, starting with his interview. I think his feelings for Katniss are genuine, but I also think he made use of them, playing to the crowd.

Me too, I think his feelings are real, and I think that no matter if he was involved or not with the rebels his goodness of character will remain. The question remaining is whether his "use" of these feelings was not only to up their chances in the Games, but as part of an underlying reason we are yet to know of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FurryDice (Post 5594346)
Yeah, Gale is very direct. I suppose his presence with the rebels at the end of CF suggests he got involved somehow in the rebellion. But, why would Haymitch (and whoever else in District 12 is involved) fill him in on the plans? Was there something particular he could do for them? Would it have been safe to bring someone else into the plans, without a very good reason? Especially as Gale could potentially be a bit of a loose cannon, imo, if he didn't think plans were progressing quickly enough, or if people he cared about were in danger in the short term.

Haymitch (or any of the head rebels for that matter) didn't need to fill him in on the plans. District 12 was being destroyed by the Capitol. The rebels lend their assistance for evacuation, at least to Katniss' family. No need for Gale to have known any details until afterward they were rescued and taken to District 13. Maybe Gale asked to be taken to Katniss, or the rebels brought him to Katniss for comfort. Maybe that's just why he was there at the end of CF. :huh:

Clockworthy August 25th, 2010 2:55 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I think we all know what came out yesterday (At least in N.A) :)

(Hint: It's Mockingjay)

Anyone grab a copy yet? The synopsis on Wikipedia shook me, but I'm happy about who Katniss finally ends up with.

baseballblondie August 25th, 2010 3:11 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
My copy is in the mail.

Fury August 25th, 2010 5:26 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I started reading Hunger Games at one of the libraries in town yesterday (the one I can't get a card at for some reason :grumble: ) and got to like... page 81. Well, today I went to the library to check out Hunger Games, but they are all checked out since Mockingjay came out.

*sigh* So I have it on reserve.

What I did read I like so far. The main character is great to read about, and the story looks very exciting. Not sure I like Peeta, though he might grow on me. But I really liked the main character's friend from back home. Gale or something? Thought he would be one of the initiates.

GinnyIsGenius August 26th, 2010 6:49 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Clockworthy: A synopsis couldn't possibly do justice to the book.
I finished Mockingjay last night, and I'm afraid a couple of restless nights are yet to come. Hopefully I can vent some of it here.

ACCIO SPOILER TAGS!

This one it's general commentary on the book. I'll tag it anyway, just in case, though there won't be any specific details in it.

Spoiler: show


In general, Mockingjay was tragic. Even in what you could call "happiness", this story is tragic. And I guess that was S. Collins point.

Mockingjay was great commentary on war and politics. And Collins expertly painted a very raw and realistic picture. I don't think I've ever being this affected as I read a book. I'm still am. And I'm sure I'm going to be for a couple of days, 'cause it's fiction, but only not so much, when you think about it. Collins held true to her word that, to her, this stories were, first and foremost, war stories.

School Library Journal"When I think back, at the center of all this is the question of what makes a necessary war—at what point is it justifiable or unavoidable? Source
Adding to that, that no matter what, no matter which side either, war changes people scarring them forever.

I loved Mockingjay as the ending of the trilogy. I think S. Collins had very specific messages she wanted to convey, and that she did indeed. I'm not going to be able to re-read it for some time. I got the audiobook and I can't even contemplate listening to it if I want to hold on to my sanity. :lol:

I don't exactly know where to put this book in the series. Catching Fire was my favorite. Mockingjay has shaken me up so much, undoubtedly like none of the other two, but what does that mean? Does that means it's a better book, a better story, or that is it just more meaningful or emotionally charged? I'm still digesting. I'm still mourning. I'm yet to figure that out.


Now on to MORE SPOILER-Y comments on the book.

Spoiler: show
I'm soooo glad that the conspiracy theory that was out and about in the webz turn out to be incorrect. *sigh of relief*

My favorites were the two boys, I think. Peeta and Gale. Both going through very different motions. Peeta is broken. Gale is on a mission, basically riding on raw emotions. The Victors and their stories, another favorite, just gutted me inside. To hear them talk about the awful things there had been subjected by the Capitol, to finally know about them as persons, not as the ruthless Victors they were portrayed as. Finnick, in particular, was incredible.

As for someone that wanted to see something different from Peeta, other than the selfless, goodhearted boy with bread dimension, hijacked Peeta fulfilled my desire. In a lot of ways, I bonded more with hijacked Peeta than the real Peeta (or the Peeta in HG and CF). And, just like Katniss, I appreciated the real Peeta more afterward. It helped me embrace Peeta's character without the hesitation I felt before (because he was such a good liar :whistle:). I felt lots of different emotions for him throughout this book. I'm just glad we got to see something different from his character. At times you really didn't know where he was going. Nice for a change. I found hijacked Peeta fascinating.

Gale. Gale was how I expected him to be, and then some more. He was blunt, direct, harsh (in combat and rebellion). You know, he brought a very painful and hard perspective to swallow, but in the end very real and very telling. It's hard to judge him, because is hard to judge the abused and their hatred towards their oppressors. Who are WE to judge? Something that has built up for years and by no accounts unwarranted feelings. "You think I'm heartless," he said. I bet a lot of people are thinking that 'cause it would be easy to. There are no easy choices, really, no absolute rights. The lines get really blurred. Something that gets you thinking...

As far as the love triangle goes, I can say that I have NEVER in my life seen a writer deal with a triangle as poignantly as S. Collins did (much less in a YA novel). I always expected that the answer was fully dependent on the results of the rebellion and war, but never in my life did I contemplate like it happen. IMO, she handle it extremely well, masterfully, how she tied it into the context of war, which ultimately that's why it was so heartbreaking and moving. She stayed very true to the characters. I mean, given the gloomy situation, I would've expected every character to act just as they did in the resolution.

In a way, I view any possibility Gale could've ever had with Katniss as a casualty of war, too. It was extremely hard to read those to pages (pg 366-367). When they encounter and she asks "was it your bomb"? You know there was no going back. And it was in Gale's character, I think, "because he alone knows how I [Katniss] operate", to realize that. That this was a hurdle that could probably never be overcome, then stand and walk away. I have incredible respect for Gale's character for doing that. My heart breaks when I think about it.

The "old Katniss" could have ended up with Gale, absolutely. The post-war Katniss could have only been with Peeta. And I say that with the conviction I never felt on the first two books. So Suzanne Collins, wow, that's how the pros do it. When you think about it, there's no place to be rejoice about which "team" won. That only cheapens the story and the circumstances. Everyone lost. Everyone is broken. Everyone is incomplete. No one is the same as they were before.

I'm glad there was NO alternative ship for Gale. For example, Madge/Gale or such. Anything like that would have felt like a cop-out to me. But S. Collins knew exactly what she was doing, what she was aiming for. She's brilliant.

There were things I'd have like to see that we didn't get a chance too. This sort of story black-outs, where we are just recounted the events. The victor's rescue from the Capitol, comes first to mind. Because it seemed a bit too easy. But I think it felt that way because we don't actually SEE it happening.

As far as the unanswered questions, I'm just curious to whether Katniss ever made peace with Gale, did they continued to further become strangers, did they ever talk again, as friends, the allies, the team they once were? I don't think their relationship could've ever been the same as before. That's the point of it all... I hope they didn't become total strangers, even if if took time to get there for both of them. :sad:


Kudos to Suzanne Collins for serving the story first and foremost and above all.

Beatifically August 27th, 2010 3:29 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I don't really know what to think of it. :shrug: I thought it was brilliant but after the climax, I had very mixed feelings. I feel guilty for admitting this, but I don't really like how it ended. Maybe if I mull it over some more I'll change my mind, but who knows?

:sigh:

GinnyIsGenius August 27th, 2010 3:41 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
What you didn't like exactly?

MrsLupin August 27th, 2010 6:26 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I loved Mockingjay! I loved that Katniss came into her own and didn't let anyone use her as a puppet.

I didn't have feelings either way about who she was romantically involved with....
Spoiler: show
... but I loved that she did decide in the end. She didn't just end up with the one who wasn't dead. No one felt like she "settled." And with her closeness to Prim (which totally broke my heart) it made sense that anyone who had any involvement of that bomb would never be able to be in her life.

GinnyIsGenius August 28th, 2010 1:52 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I'm stll thinking about this book, :lol: I may need therapy.

Spoiler: show
I agree, Mrs. Lupin. I loved that Collins wrote that "they grew back together" before she could finally say "real". That was huge to me, because to me that was what finally did it. Taking time to purify themselves from the horrors they lived, restore and heal as much as they could, then try to build a life with any semblance of happiness and normalcy.

Their relationship had been too entangled with the outside factors: in the midst of the Games (and the fact that true or not, their relationship began as a way to manipulate viewers), and then in the midst of a devastating war for freedom.

Seems to me like any decision before that could have been considered as influenced by their experiences. To me, it makes sense that Katniss would've needed time to get there.

After war, it was either Peeta (because he came back to District 12 and was there through the healing process) or her being alone. Sadly, life threw a mad curve ball at Gale, and he would always be tied, even if indirectly, to Prim's death. :(

Even at the end, you still get a feel of how war has scarred the lives of the survivors. You really don't feel like cheering about "which team won" 'cause that would almost sound petty considering the events. In reality, no one did. The war heroes became broken victims of the war they fought for.

I'm just glad Katniss gave herself a chance.


For anyone interested in more serious discussion, check HogPro's Mockingjay Discussion post. They are extremely good.

Beatifically August 29th, 2010 2:18 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GinnyIsGenius (Post 5598218)
What you didn't like exactly?

Honestly? Just the ending.

Spoiler: show
Everything after Prim died just bothered me. Katniss became a character I didn't like anymore, especially when they were voting about to keep the Hunger Games continuing. (One could argue that she only voted yes because she was going to kill Coin anyway, but that was never clarified. So I guess that's mostly an issue with writing?) Then the whole epilogue bothered me because Katniss seemed so detached. Really, she referred to her son and daughter as the "boy" and "girl"? I always saw her as so loyal and caring that it just shocked me how cold she was.

Gale became nearly out of character with his abrupt departure. Furtherore, it really just bothers me that their friendship was dropped so suddenly (though I understand why Katniss would associate him with the bomb), as if they were never close at all. I get that Katniss was supposed to be with Peeta and sheexplains it well at the end of Mockingjay, but it seems like Suzanne Collins was just trying to get rid of Gale quickly. And what's with that comment about Gale probably kissing another girl? :huh: That was so ... tactless. My main issue is that their whole friendship was thrown out the window when that was one of the best things in the series, besides the dynamic between Katniss and Peeta.

Lastly, I have a huge issue with how Katniss was dealing with the war so many years later. I get that she wouldn't forget all that happened, but was she really that depressed? Maybe Suzanne Collins meant to say that she was still scarred, but it came across as if she was haunted on a daily basis, to the point that it was unhealthy.

HMN August 29th, 2010 2:19 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Beatifically (Post 5598212)
I don't really know what to think of it. :shrug: I thought it was brilliant but after the climax, I had very mixed feelings. I feel guilty for admitting this, but I don't really like how it ended. Maybe if I mull it over some more I'll change my mind, but who knows?

I felt the same at first. It was so exciting all the way through and then sort of flat. But then I realized
Spoiler: show
just how broken and used and destroyed Katniss and Peeta are as people that the happily ever after will never be 100% happy. Dealing with flashbacks and breakdowns. They're still allies, but she finally fell in love with her ally. Gale also always had aspirations, and had Katniss not been so messed with, perhaps she would have also, but she was done - and a lot like Harry Potter, just wanting a quiet life. (but then again, that's a bit of what bothered me about the epilogue of HP!)


Quote:

Originally Posted by Beatifically (Post 5599492)
Spoiler: show
Everything after Prim died just bothered me. Katniss became a character I didn't like anymore, especially when they were voting about to keep the Hunger Games continuing. (One could argue that she only voted yes because she was going to kill Coin anyway, but that was never clarified. So I guess that's mostly an issue with writing?)

Spoiler: show
I had to think about that over and over again. I think it was a lot to do with giving Coin a 'vote' that Katniss was on her side - otherwise Katniss would not have been allowed to Kill Snow. So when she said "for Prim" it should have told Coin that Katniss knew D13/Coin killed Prim, but really it gave false confidence to Coin that Katniss believed it to be the Capitol and wanted revenge. I think Haymitch understood her because his reply, "I'm with the Mockingjay" also said to me that he knew Coin to be untrustworthy, but for once left it up to Katniss to decide what to do.

Personally I would have liked to see her eat the nightlock pill and have the book end there and open to interpretation, but so much else of the book rocked, that I'm going to let it go. :)


Still reading through everyone else's comments. In general though, it was a wonderful roller coaster ride. Just when I thought things were going to go one way they totally changed direction.
Spoiler: show
The amount of utter understanding of manipulation and suffering and want of power was spot on in my book. More to comment as I digest, but overall, wow. Favorite moment was when Peeta went to strangle Katniss. I couldn't figure out how she was going to involve him and bam! She turned the nicest guy ever into a monster. Brilliant! And then she did just the opposite to Gale.

Worst thing for me - all the times Katniss just blacked out from something. The girl was so drugged for so much of the story that I feared I would get to the end and learn it was all just a dream.


Quote:

Originally Posted by GinnyIsGenius (Post 5597934)
Spoiler: show
There were things I'd have like to see that we didn't get a chance too. This sort of story black-outs, where we are just recounted the events. The victor's rescue from the Capitol, comes first to mind. Because it seemed a bit too easy. But I think it felt that way because we don't actually SEE it happening.

As far as the unanswered questions, I'm just curious to whether Katniss ever made peace with Gale, did they continued to further become strangers, did they ever talk again, as friends, the allies, the team they once were? I don't think their relationship could've ever been the same as before. That's the point of it all... I hope they didn't become total strangers, even if if took time to get there for both of them. :sad:

GIG, I agree with all of your comments, couldn't have said it better myself. Regarding these two bits:
Spoiler: show
I started to become a bit intolerant of all the blackouts myself. But when the rescue party even mentioned that the rescue of Peeta was too easy - I appreciated the turn of events even more. I think the anticipation worked for me this time because when Katniss went to see Peeta for the first time we all expected that hug, only to get the total opposite. I couldn't have been more pleased.

Regarding Katniss and Gale, I have the same questions about Kaniss and her mother. I think Gale loved her, but when he realized he didn't 'win' he was not coming back. I don't think ever. The whole Games started with Katniss trying to protect Prim and if she didn't try in the first place, life as normal would have continued. The whole thing became pointless to Katniss with the death of Prim - all of it really, the war, the rebellion - even though it was a good thing - she went through it all for nothing. And really, while it was Coin's fault, she'll always blame Gale.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Fury (Post 5597164)
I started reading Hunger Games at one of the libraries in town yesterday (the one I can't get a card at for some reason :grumble: ) and got to like... page 81. Well, today I went to the library to check out Hunger Games, but they are all checked out since Mockingjay came out.

*sigh* So I have it on reserve..

Keep waiting, please! These really are the best books I've read all year. I agree with GIG, I loved HG, loved CF even more and MJ was a great end to it all.

kala_way August 29th, 2010 7:18 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Regarding the end:
Spoiler: show
I actually really liked the voting scene, looking back on it. At the moment I read it I thought, "What? Katniss wouldn't do that? What's she up to?" especially with the discussion surrounding the dialogue I knew there had to be more to it. When Haymitch went with her it just reminded me of the times in the Arena when she was puzzling him out (only in reverse this time). They are alike in a lot of ways Katniss and Haymitch. I also liked that the president basically suffocated himself and that she didn't just kill him in front of a crowd. That never would have sat well with me.

I like the way she progressed the characters. From where they stood before I thought for sure she'd be with Gale, but those kind of tough situations show you a lot about people. Gale had a vicious streak that I never really remember seeing in the previous books. I'm sad that we didn't see any real development with Peeta, because I always thought his puppy-dog love was a little cloying, but there's only so much she can do. I wasn't disappointed that they ended up together.


My favorite line has got to be: "Gale can think what he likes." I know that sounds strange, but I love Katniss for her confidence. So many female characters (and even some females in real life, in my experience) feel like they need to explain their every emotion. Make sure that everyone fully understands their thought processes. Even grovel at the feet of people begging for them to understand or to forgive her for what she thinks and feels. Katniss doesn't always handle things perfectly and she doesn't always express herself well, but she isn't ashamed of her own thoughts and feelings and doesn't apologize for them. I have great respect for that, and I love seeing it portrayed well in lit.

Oh and I loved the songs and poems Collins wrote in this book. They were stunning and gorgeous.

The whole book was a whirlwind. Her unbalanced state of mind is definitely reflected :) and I think the blackouts and sudden story jumps were a necessity to keeping it solely in Katniss' POV. Overall I was not disappointed :) It was a great birthday gift!

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(Oh and she totally stole my idea (okay, I'm sure someone thought of it 1000 years ago but still)! When I was younger I wanted to have twins, a boy and girl, and name them Castor and Pollux (Cas and Pol for short).)

As much as I liked the book, all the death was depressing. I know she's never had a light hand in that regard given the premise of the books, but still *sigh*

Clockworthy August 29th, 2010 11:16 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Just finished Mockingjay...that was indeed a whirlwind. If someone started it before the other two, they'd be horrified.

Spoiler: show
I think that after Katniss saw the children (and Prim) die, seeing someone who has post-war/Games trauma, that was fairly interesting.

I am now curious to see how the Capitol children's Hunger Games went down.

HMN August 30th, 2010 1:20 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Clockworthy (Post 5599975)
Spoiler: show
I am now curious to see how the Capitol children's Hunger Games went down.

Spoiler: show
I was under the assumption that they didn't happen. It was Coin's idea, and who would she have told in the brief time between that meeting and the execution. That being said, I think it would have been pointless to have children of those arrested and executed fight to the death. I LOVED the choice of the D8 leader (forgetting her name, Payton?) as the new president. She was fair and level headed.

GinnyIsGenius August 30th, 2010 1:44 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Beatifically (Post 5599492)
Honestly? Just the ending.
Spoiler: show
Everything after Prim died just bothered me. Katniss became a character I didn't like anymore, especially when they were voting about to keep the Hunger Games continuing. (One could argue that she only voted yes because she was going to kill Coin anyway, but that was never clarified. So I guess that's mostly an issue with writing?) Then the whole epilogue bothered me because Katniss seemed so detached. Really, she referred to her son and daughter as the "boy" and "girl"? I always saw her as so loyal and caring that it just shocked me how cold she was.

Lastly, I have a huge issue with how Katniss was dealing with the war so many years later. I get that she wouldn't forget all that happened, but was she really that depressed? Maybe Suzanne Collins meant to say that she was still scarred, but it came across as if she was haunted on a daily basis, to the point that it was unhealthy.

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Yeah, I get that. It was not a happy ending by ANY means. I read this at HogPro. I t was so well said I'm not even going to attempt to reword it.
John GrangerThat we get a “happy ending” (?) with Peeta and Katniss raising a family in District 12 is not cause of celebration but for agonizing reflection about the broken lives wars leave in their wake, most obviously in the lives of the surviving soldiers.

I think S. Collins wanted to drive home her message of how devastating is war, and how it irremediably affects a person forever. Katniss struggle continues after war, this time internally, trying to make peace with everything and restore herself. It's only with time that she's able to "feel that thing again", and that she realizes that the only way that she can survive and deal with the aftermath of war is holding on to what Peeta ultimately represents, hope. And even after she does that, she stills struggles. "That's when I make a list in my head of every act of goodness I've seen someone do. It's like a game. Repetitive. Even a little tedious after more than twenty years."

:huh:

That's a pretty dark ending indeed.

The realism intertwined in this dystopian fiction book took me by surprise. I think that why it affected me so much as I was reading. I was, quite literally, A MESS. Of course I drew real-life parallels with the first two, but this was brutally real. A heck of cautionary tale. I'm still trying to make peace with a lot of things myself.


Quote:

Originally Posted by HMN (Post 5599493)
I felt the same at first. It was so exciting all the way through and then sort of flat. But then I realized
Spoiler: show
just how broken and used and destroyed Katniss and Peeta are as people that the happily ever after will never be 100% happy. Dealing with flashbacks and breakdowns. They're still allies, but she finally fell in love with her ally. Gale also always had aspirations, and had Katniss not been so messed with, perhaps she would have also, but she was done - and a lot like Harry Potter, just wanting a quiet life. (but then again, that's a bit of what bothered me about the epilogue of HP!)

Spoiler: show
Except "quite life" doesn't need to mean "depressive and unhealthy". :lol: But again, I think S. Collins was just pushing her message. Katniss is broken, and she is just holding on. Barely. And struggling. But holding on.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Beatifically (Post 5599492)
Gale became
Spoiler: show
nearly out of character with his abrupt departure. Furthermore, it really just bothers me that their friendship was dropped so suddenly (though I understand why Katniss would associate him with the bomb), as if they were never close at all. I get that Katniss was supposed to be with Peeta and she explains it well at the end of Mockingjay, but it seems like Suzanne Collins was just trying to get rid of Gale quickly. And what's with that comment about Gale probably kissing another girl? :huh: That was so ... tactless. My main issue is that their whole friendship was thrown out the window when that was one of the best things in the series, besides the dynamic between Katniss and Peeta.

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To be honest, this is one of the events of the book that I’ve had to make more peace with for the same reasons you posted here.
I would like to think that Peeta helped Katniss to get there one day, that they could be able to repair their relationship, or salvage as much as they could (though some part of me think that would’ve be as painful).

Even if it wasn't on paper, I think that Gale looked out for Katniss from D2, even if she didn’t know. Much like she asked where he had gone to and how she thought of him when she entered the woods. I don’t think she forgot about her or leave her to her luck.

Someone pointed out somewhere how Katniss possessions were on D12 when she got there. They were speculating how Gale, one of the few people who knew they existed and their importance (he saved them from the firebombing), might have brought them to the house himself, maybe even ask Greasy Sae to keep an eye on her on D12.

But I understand why he left. I saw it in character. He just knows Katniss that much, knows how she works. And he needed to find as much peace as Katniss. She may never get past it (Prim's death), but he may never forgive himself for it. I do agree, though, that leaving AND forgetting about her well being is definitely NOT in his character. I refuse to think that just because it's not written in the book, it did not happen.

And YES! I agree with the "kissing another girl" comment too. WHAT WAS THAT? :huh:


Quote:

Originally Posted by HMN (Post 5599493)
I think
Spoiler: show
Gale loved her, but when he realized he didn't 'win' he was not coming back. I don't think ever. The whole Games started with Katniss trying to protect Prim and if she didn't try in the first place, life as normal would have continued. The whole thing became pointless to Katniss with the death of Prim - all of it really, the war, the rebellion - even though it was a good thing - she went through it all for nothing. And really, while it was Coin's fault, she'll always blame Gale.

Spoiler: show
I don't think it is necessarily that she blames him for it, but the fact the he will forever be tied to Prim's death in her mind.

Ultimately, he loved Katniss and wanted her happy. I think it was very brave of him to leave. I don’t think it was an easy decision, letting go. I only have respect for his character for doing that. I don’t think he would even attempt reaching out again, before making sure that’s what she wanted or was ready to. As Katniss said in the end of CF, he is “someone who will not plead, or explain, or think he can alter my design with entreaties, because he alone knows how I operate.”

Gale just had a hard role to play in this book as a whole.


Quote:

Originally Posted by HMN (Post 5599493)
Regarding Katniss and Gale, I have the same questions about Katniss and her mother.

Spoiler: show

I had been thinking about her, too. I don't see her ever returning to D12. For anything. :no: I think Gale's mom would've stay in touch with her. I even see Gale making sure she is ok in D4!

In my mind there's NO WAY this two families remained in touch, someway, somehow.


Quote:

Originally Posted by HMN (Post 5599493)
I had to think about that over and over again.
Spoiler: show
I think it was a lot to do with giving Coin a 'vote' that Katniss was on her side - otherwise Katniss would not have been allowed to Kill Snow. So when she said "for Prim" it should have told Coin that Katniss knew D13/Coin killed Prim, but really it gave false confidence to Coin that Katniss believed it to be the Capitol and wanted revenge. I think Haymitch understood her because his reply, "I'm with the Mockingjay" also said to me that he knew Coin to be untrustworthy, but for once left it up to Katniss to decide what to do.

Spoiler: show
I'm for this theory too. In fact, for some reason it never crossed my mind that Katniss was telling the truth when she voted "yes". I just didn't know what she was going to do. I think her musings before voting, how nothing was ever going to change, gave it away. Coin was just a new, flipped side version of Snow. Katniss voted "yes" to mislead Coin about where her alliance lay.


Quote:

Originally Posted by HMN (Post 5599493)
I started to become
Spoiler: show
a bit intolerant of all the blackouts myself. But when the rescue party even mentioned that the rescue of Peeta was too easy - I appreciated the turn of events even more. I think the anticipation worked for me this time because when Katniss went to see Peeta for the first time we all expected that hug, only to get the total opposite. I couldn't have been more pleased.

Spoiler: show
True, "hijacked" Peeta was one of the highlights of the book for me.


Quote:

Originally Posted by kala_way (Post 5599612)
Regarding the end:
Spoiler: show

I like the way she progressed the characters. From where they stood before I thought for sure she'd be with Gale, but those kind of tough situations show you a lot about people. Gale had a vicious streak that I never really remember seeing in the previous books.

Spoiler: show
Oh, I think we saw bits of it during his multiple rants in HG and CF. I don't remember the exact quote, but he said something along the lines of "how different can't it be killing someone from hunting animals", among other things. We knew about his ardent fervor for rebellion.

In combat, well, it definitely gets escalated.

War is morally ambiguous no matter how you try to look at it or how you try to debate it. Gale represents a stance. His character is very black and white. Ultimately it bites him in the you-know-what when his weapons are used against children and end up killing Prim. *gulps* Coin is his leader because she is the only one backing up the cause for which he would give his life for. Coin is against Snow. So he is with Coin. He finally has the resources at hand to fight for what he had wanted to fight before. Then the mess happened. :(


Quote:

Originally Posted by kala_way (Post 5599612)
Oh and I loved the songs and poems Collins wrote in this book. They were stunning and gorgeous.

Spoiler: show
Absolutely! I loved them too. I personally think "The Hanging Tree" may have a underlining revolutionary message. It is interesting when you see at the different point in the book when the song is referenced.


Quote:

Originally Posted by kala_way (Post 5599612)
As much as I liked the book
Spoiler: show
, all the death was depressing. I know she's never had a light hand in that regard given the premise of the books, but still *sigh*

Spoiler: show
:lol: I know. I think she brought it to a whole new level this time, even with HG and CF on the bag.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Clockworthy (Post 5599975)
Just finished Mockingjay...that was indeed a whirlwind. If someone started it before the other two, they'd be horrified.

:rotfl: That pretty much sums it up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clockworthy (Post 5599975)
Spoiler: show
I am now curious to see how the Capitol children's Hunger Games went down.

Spoiler: show
I don't think it happened either. Coin is dead, so is her idea.



Question: I wonder if the Districts
Spoiler: show
remained with their former specialties under Payton. We know that eventually D12 is going to a factory to make medicines. All districts were destroyed after all, they all needed rebuilding ...

I find it interesting that Gale went to D2 which is where he "cracked the Nut" with the avalanche, one of his most questionable ideas. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't D2's job weaponry? After Prim, and seeing how his weapons can be put to use in unexpected ways ... What may that "important job" be? I'm sure he know handles himself with a new found philosophy.

HMN August 30th, 2010 9:48 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GinnyIsGenius (Post 5600072)
Spoiler: show
Even if it wasn't on paper, I think that Gale looked out for Katniss from D2, even if she didn’t know. Much like she asked where he had gone to and how she thought of him when she entered the woods. I don’t think she forgot about her or leave her to her luck.

Someone pointed out somewhere how Katniss possessions were on D12 when she got there. They were speculating how Gale, one of the few people who knew they existed and their importance (he saved them from the firebombing), might have brought them to the house himself, maybe even ask Greasy Sae to keep an eye on her on D12.

And YES! I agree with the "kissing another girl" comment too. WHAT WAS THAT? :huh:

Spoiler: show
I think that was just to show that Katniss could see him moving on with life. Even though it was never going to happen between them, he didn't try to patch things up either.


Quote:

Spoiler: show
I don't think it is necessarily that she blames him for it, but the fact the he will forever be tied to Prim's death in her mind.

Yes, this is a much better way of putting it.

Quote:

Question: I wonder if the Districts
Spoiler: show
remained with their former specialties under Payton. We know that eventually D12 is going to a factory to make medicines. All districts were destroyed after all, they all needed rebuilding ...

I find it interesting that Gale went to D2 which is where he "cracked the Nut" with the avalanche, one of his most questionable ideas. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't D2's job weaponry? After Prim, and seeing how his weapons can be put to use in unexpected ways ... What may that "important job" be? I'm sure he know handles himself with a new found philosophy.

Excellent question and observation! GiG, you are genius! Regarding the districts:
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My first thought was that factory work is only really a small step up from mine work. I hope they get more than a factory built there. The idea of D4 getting a hospital made a nice connection between 12 making medicine and 4 building a hospital (Katniss' home and her mom's new home). Then Gale off in Peacekeeper breeding ground/ weaponry - that's an interesting thing. I hope he understood why Katniss killed Coin, and that his forte for trapping turns around into something good. It reminds me a bit of Beetee - he built part of the communications systems for the Capitol and then hijacked them for the Rebels. In war and power people can always take what they build or take their knowledge and use it for another purpose.

GinnyIsGenius August 31st, 2010 11:47 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HMN (Post 5600604)
Spoiler: show
I think that was just to show that Katniss could see him moving on with life.

Spoiler: show
Oh, interesting perspective. I guess it just sounded odd to me, because it was said so early upon her D12 arrival. I like it, though. I will keep it for my peace of mind. :lol:


Quote:

Originally Posted by HMN (Post 5600604)
Even though it was never going to happen between them, he didn't try to patch things up either.

Spoiler: show
I don't think Katniss was ready to patch anything up, and Gale knowing her as well as he did, knew this too. It'd be really unfair for her to feel deserted, IMO. She didn't stop him after all. She was unable to. As she said, she would have to deal with the pain that came with that decision (as I'm sure he would too).


Quote:

Originally Posted by HMN (Post 5600604)
Spoiler: show
My first thought was that factory work is only really a small step up from mine work. I hope they get more than a factory built there. The idea of D4 getting a hospital made a nice connection between 12 making medicine and 4 building a hospital (Katniss' home and her mom's new home). Then Gale off in Peacekeeper breeding ground/ weaponry - that's an interesting thing. I hope he understood why Katniss killed Coin, and that his forte for trapping turns around into something good. It reminds me a bit of Beetee - he built part of the communications systems for the Capitol and then hijacked them for the Rebels. In war and power people can always take what they build or take their knowledge and use it for another purpose.

Spoiler: show
I think it would make sense for Gale to understand why Katniss killed Coin. He knew about the strong possibility that his bomb was the one that killed Prim. That would go back to Coin. Plus, he was always intuitive about the way Katniss "worked".

We didn't see Katniss' trial either. :( Who knows who else advocated in her defense! I can definitely see Gale getting involved. Another thing we'll never be sure of unless Collins goes the Rowling route and starts answering some questions. Again, for my peace of mind, I will think so. :lol:

Seems like D12 recovery was very slow. And for how long did Katniss had to be confined to there? I hope it wasn't forever. :wow: [sarcasm] But with such an upbeat ending [/sarcasm], I guess it's possible. :sigh:

FurryDice September 1st, 2010 2:55 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Wow, Mockingjay was incredible! A fitting end to the trilogy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GinnyIsGenius (Post 5597934)
Spoiler: show
I'm soooo glad that the conspiracy theory that was out and about in the webz turn out to be incorrect. *sigh of relief*

Spoiler: show
Me, too, it was much more credible this way.


Quote:

Spoiler: show
My favorites were the two boys, I think. Peeta and Gale. Both going through very different motions. Peeta is broken. Gale is on a mission, basically riding on raw emotions. The Victors and their stories, another favorite, just gutted me inside. To hear them talk about the awful things there had been subjected by the Capitol, to finally know about them as persons, not as the ruthless Victors they were portrayed as. Finnick, in particular, was incredible.


Spoiler: show
Finnick's story was so horrible, it went to show that the victors' special treatment from the Capitol is a lie, too. And that Snow was even lower than he already seemed.


Quote:

Spoiler: show
There were things I'd have like to see that we didn't get a chance too. This sort of story black-outs, where we are just recounted the events. The victor's rescue from the Capitol, comes first to mind. Because it seemed a bit too easy. But I think it felt that way because we don't actually SEE it happening.

Spoiler: show
I think it was worth it, to keep the books all in the same perspective. Also, with the remarks from Gale (I think) that the rescue seemed too easy, and Peeta being hijacked to kill Katniss, it's likely that Snow made it easy for them.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Beatifically (Post 5599492)
Spoiler: show
Then the whole epilogue bothered me because Katniss seemed so detached. Really, she referred to her son and daughter as the "boy" and "girl"? I always saw her as so loyal and caring that it just shocked me how cold she was.



Spoiler: show
I don't know if she was detached from the children - she says that only holding her baby daughter in her arms reassured her, and she shows concern for their happiness, that they won't have to live in fear. I think that not giving the children's names is a good thing, it keeps it deliberately vague -it's up to the reader whether the girl is named after Prim, or if the boy is named for one of his grandfathers. Remember all the criticism of the names in the DH epilogue?


Quote:

Originally Posted by HMN (Post 5599493)
Spoiler: show
I had to think about that over and over again. I think it was a lot to do with giving Coin a 'vote' that Katniss was on her side - otherwise Katniss would not have been allowed to Kill Snow. So when she said "for Prim" it should have told Coin that Katniss knew D13/Coin killed Prim, but really it gave false confidence to Coin that Katniss believed it to be the Capitol and wanted revenge. I think Haymitch understood her because his reply, "I'm with the Mockingjay" also said to me that he knew Coin to be untrustworthy, but for once left it up to Katniss to decide what to do.

Quote:

Spoiler: show
Oh, I think that's very possible. Katniss knew that Coin had sent Peeta with the team to kill her, because she was willing to oppose Coin. She might well have been staying on Coin's good side until she got her chance. To be honest, I started wondering if Coin was going to be just as ruthless as Snow quite early on in Mockingjay, probably around the time the prep team were locked up to starve. I was very worried that Snow would become quite as despicable as Snow once she took power, and nothing would really change except the people in charge. Her desire to hold another Hunger Games really confirmed this. And I doubt it would have stopped at just one year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kala_way (Post 5599612)
Spoiler: show
I like the way she progressed the characters. From where they stood before I thought for sure she'd be with Gale, but those kind of tough situations show you a lot about people. Gale had a vicious streak that I never really remember seeing in the previous books. I'm sad that we didn't see any real development with Peeta, because I always thought his puppy-dog love was a little cloying, but there's only so much she can do. I wasn't disappointed that they ended up together.

Spoiler: show
As others have mentioned, there are Gale's rants about the Capitol, and his view that killing a human isn't much different from killing an animal. For Gale, it's straightforward - the Capitol are the enemy, and you need to play by the same rules they follow -as he tells Katniss his double-whammy bombs are following the same rulebook Snow followed when he hikacked Peeta.


Quote:

Originally Posted by HMN (Post 5600057)
Spoiler: show
I was under the assumption that they didn't happen. It was Coin's idea, and who would she have told in the brief time between that meeting and the execution. That being said, I think it would have been pointless to have children of those arrested and executed fight to the death. I LOVED the choice of the D8 leader (forgetting her name, Payton?) as the new president. She was fair and level headed.

Spoiler: show
I imagine they wouldn't happen, either. Coin spoke of the suffering in the districts being just cause for another Games, but she was safely tucked away in District 13. I think her own desire for vengeance may have come in there, to an extent.


Quote:

Spoiler: show
I don't think it is necessarily that she blames him for it, but the fact the he will forever be tied to Prim's death in her mind.

Spoiler: show
I think so, too. Gale would forever be associated with those bombs. I also think the final reasoning for Peeta is about hope -she needs the flower of hope that Peeta represents to her, not the flame of the fight that Gale stands for.


Quote:

Question: I wonder if the Districts
Spoiler: show
remained with their former specialties under Payton. We know that eventually D12 is going to a factory to make medicines. All districts were destroyed after all, they all needed rebuilding ...

Spoiler: show
I think they may have diversified - we hear of a factory being built in 12, and the ground being ploughed for agriculture. I think having the district specialities was a way of keeping people powerless, and dependent. Now, with more freedom, the districts can probably choose what they're going to do.


Spoiler: show
I think what Plutarch says to Katniss at the end is so true, and so relevant -"Now we're in the sweet period where everyone agrees that our recent horrors should never be repeated. But collective thinking is usually short-lived. We're fickle, stupid beings with poor memories and a great gift for self-destruction" I think history has proven that it's so true.

HMN September 1st, 2010 4:57 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by furrydice
Spoiler: show
Finnick's story was so horrible, it went to show that the victors' special treatment from the Capitol is a lie, too. And that Snow was even lower than he already seemed.

How have we not talked more about Finnick????
Spoiler: show
How tragic was his story. It was such a comment on the whole concept of fame - having one public face/persona and then your private life. But the horror that they put the victors through. It makes me want to go back and think about all the other victors that were mentioned. And I wonder if they treat the D2 victors better than the others. I remember Katniss' comment about sometimes victors children are reaped, and the announcers saying there was bad luck in that family, but she feeling there was too much coincidence. It was like wow what were they holding over that victor's head that they reaped the children for.

I do wish Finnick didn't die. I wanted him to be happy for some reason. But it was a nice touch that she left Annie with a baby.

Quote:

Originally Posted by furrydice
Spoiler: show
I think what Plutarch says to Katniss at the end is so true, and so relevant -"Now we're in the sweet period where everyone agrees that our recent horrors should never be repeated. But collective thinking is usually short-lived. We're fickle, stupid beings with poor memories and a great gift for self-destruction" I think history has proven that it's so true.

Spoiler: show
I think that is so true. And so telling of human nature. I remember my HS History teacher talking about how history seems to have 20 year cycles - as in from one recession to another it is usually about 20 years. As in it is about the time it takes to forget one thing, 'progress' to something else, then fall again. I think that was part of the rationale of the Quarter Quell. After 20 something years of district's complacency of regular horror, let's throw on something really bad to remind them of our true power.


Quote:

Originally Posted by GinnyIsGenius (Post 5601312)
Spoiler: show
We didn't see Katniss' trial either. :( Who knows who else advocated in her defense! I can definitely see Gale getting involved. Another thing we'll never be sure of unless Collins goes the Rowling route and starts answering some questions. Again, for my peace of mind, I will think so. :lol:

Spoiler: show
Yes, clearly Gale is respected, so he may have helped out at the trial.

Something you wrote sparked this idea: Peeta didn't 'go after' Katniss, he just came back and started acting like himself. Planting the bushes, moving on with life in a messed up but ordinary way. I can see him 'creeping up' on Katniss the way that Annie 'crept up' on Finnick. :)
And PLEASE Collins, do a post book Q&A!

baseballblondie September 1st, 2010 11:31 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I have Mockingjay! Now let's hope that I can read it quickly.

GinnyIsGenius September 2nd, 2010 8:56 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HMN (Post 5601742)
Spoiler: show
Yes, clearly Gale is respected, so he may have helped out at the trial.

Something you wrote sparked this idea: Peeta didn't 'go after' Katniss, he just came back and started acting like himself. Planting the bushes, moving on with life in a messed up but ordinary way. I can see him 'creeping up' on Katniss the way that Annie 'crept up' on Finnick. :)

Spoiler: show
Oh yes, most definitely. I believe so, too. I like it that way, 'cause after all that would have provided Katniss the time to get herself there, emotionally. I think Katniss embraces Peeta because it's the only way she stands a chance to move on forward after the HG and war, because of how Peeta is and what he represents. Peeta is her chance at healing. (Though even after Peeta, she struggles, as we saw in the epilogue, but well ... )

This ending is so sad. I can't get over it. :lol: Part of me feels like our "heroes" didn't get redemption, they just got beaten up in the end. :shrug: Maybe that's why I ended up as an emotional wreck as well.

One week after finishing it, I think CF is still my favorite of the series.

FurryDice September 2nd, 2010 6:58 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HMN (Post 5601742)
How have we not talked more about Finnick????
Spoiler: show
How tragic was his story. It was such a comment on the whole concept of fame - having one public face/persona and then your private life. But the horror that they put the victors through. It makes me want to go back and think about all the other victors that were mentioned. And I wonder if they treat the D2 victors better than the others. I remember Katniss' comment about sometimes victors children are reaped, and the announcers saying there was bad luck in that family, but she feeling there was too much coincidence. It was like wow what were they holding over that victor's head that they reaped the children for.

Spoiler: show
Oh, wow. I hadn't thought of that, I was thinking the Capitol arranged the selection of victor's children for the dramatic effect. But this makes so much more sense. They couldn't harm the victors without a public reaction, and watching their kids suffer would be a far worse punishment. Actually, it reminds me of Haymitch's family and girlfriend, who were murdered after his victory in the Quell. Possibly something similar happened to Johanna, as she says there's nobody left that she cares about.



Quote:

Originally Posted by GinnyIsGenius (Post 5602255)
Spoiler: show

This ending is so sad. I can't get over it. :lol: Part of me feels like our "heroes" didn't get redemption, they just got beaten up in the end. :shrug: Maybe that's why I ended up as an emotional wreck as well.

Spoiler: show
I think they helped to make a better world for their children, but the cost of doing so was something they could never get over. They were still very young when they experienced such horrors and grief, and I think it's very realistic to show that it never left them.

GinnyIsGenius September 2nd, 2010 7:42 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FurryDice (Post 5602463)
Spoiler: show
I think they helped to make a better world for their children, but the cost of doing so was something they could never get over. They were still very young when they experienced such horrors and grief, and I think it's very realistic to show that it never left them.

Spoiler: show
I understand this was the side of story Collins wanted to write, and I understand why she would want to do that. I agree it's intrinsically a hard reality to deal with. Realistic can be depressing. I just don't think our heroes got much redemption in the end. I'm not arguing it necessarily. I do think Collins wanted to emphasized the grim side of war and its aftermath. I think our characters bare the consequences. Even their future so-called happiness (I'm still not sure if it was or not) was tainted forever. But I did get a sense that in many ways Katniss was just ... surviving at the end, struggling to survive, holding on to survive. (I guess this was also what Beatifically meant when she said Katniss felt sort of "detached" at the end. That struggle is evident. It doesn't come naturally even after all those years.)

That's how I read it anyway, and what I have had to make peace during this last week. Not only for Katniss but for a lot other characters. It's in Peeta's nature to be "a light". To me, his ending was nicely balanced between the good and the bad. I felt that though the games never left him, he was ok in the end. I just didn't get that same impression for Katniss. I still have trouble as to what to make of it. As for Gale's end, that was just left inconclusive, so it leaves that sense of wonder.

weasley9 September 4th, 2010 9:26 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I just got the entire trilogy the other day and finished the Hunger Games last night. :) I've read the first couple chapters of Catching Fire so far.

They're really good! I went into these books knowing nothing about them other than the fact that they were supposed to be really good, and I wasn't disappointed. Definitely reccomended.

Fury September 4th, 2010 10:23 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Finally got a copy of Hunger Games on loan from the library! Only took a week or so on the waiting list :D!

I'm sure it will be an enjoyable read.

weasley9 September 6th, 2010 2:39 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Just finished Catching Fire! I was a bit confused, but I've worked it all together. It's so good! Time for Mockingjay.

GrangerHermione September 6th, 2010 5:38 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Am I the only one that DIDN'T like Mockingjay? Because I hated it. Vehemently.
Spoiler: show
The whole book seemed flat to me. No emotion. And none of the characters seemed like themselves. Just card-board cutouts of what they used to be. I found myself rushing through the whole thing just to get to "the good part," and then finding when I was finished that there wasn't one. The first part was agonizingly slow. And just stupid. C'mon, arrows bringing down a fighter plane? And the propos just seemed dumb to me. And then Peeta is rescued in like two seconds. (What??) I thought the hijacking was a nice twist (one that I was halfway expecting, though), but I think that she ruined it. She could've made it so much better, if Katniss had actually tried to help him find himself again. Honestly, her lack of thinking about Peeta seemed unrealistic. And then the little romance/emotion there was in there seemed fake or something. Like Suzanne was just like, "Hey, I haven't put any emotion in here in awhile, so I better throw some in." :err: Katniss just bugged me the whole time. I never really liked her much, but in this one I disliked her even more.

To me, all the people who should've died didn't and all the people who did die were just random. I fully expected Haymitch to die. He's the mentor. The mentor always dies. But instead he stays alive...and does what. Nothing. Boggs was cool, but he did need to die. Finnick, on the other hand, didn't. I really think he should've been left alive to be with Annie. There's so much depressing **** in here; there needs to be SOMETHING happy. Because the rebirth of Panem and the prospect of a new life and all is just not hopeful if there's not one shred of happiness left. I might understand it if Finnick went out heroically saving someone or something, but he just randomly got left behind and devoured by mutts...okay...(And did anyone else think it odd that Annie just sat there calmly right after the love her life was decapitated, when the reason she went insane in the first place was because her district partner was beheaded??)

And then Prim? Randomest thing ever. She literally gets blown up out of nowhere. That was pointless, IMO.

But beside from all these random people dying, random people are left alive. Effie?? Who cares about her? Why is it important that she stays alive? I guess so the whole original team is still intact in the end or something.

I'm a huge Peeta supporter, so of course I wanted him to end up with Katniss. But I hated the ending and the epilogue. Where did Gale go?? He just randomly and conveniently disappeared. What the heck. IMO there should've been a more dramatic separating between him and Katniss. I mean, he didn't even say goodbye or anything. He just went to district two without another word, and she never hears from him again. ???

Then the whole romance is covered in about three pages. And there's no emotion. Katniss is so detached. It's like she never really did fall in love with Peeta. He was just the one that was there to comfort her. And so she's like, "Okay, well, I'm all alone here and there's no one else, so I guess I'm in love with you." WUT. And then in the epilogue, all she does is talk about how she's depressed and her kids dance on people's graves. I understand that the war was devastating and horrible and all, but if we're going to have a "happy" ending here, can we at least end up on a slightly optimistic note? There were some lines that hinted at hope and happiness, but they were too smothered in depression and darkness to have lasting merit in the end.

Over all, I was VERY disappointed. Suzanne took one of my favorite book series...and butchered the end of it.

baseballblondie September 6th, 2010 5:43 pm

Re: The Hunger Games
 
I'm not very far into Mockingjay yet, but I wanted to share something I noticed.

Spoiler: show
Cinna. He has been my favorite character since he first showed up in Hunger Games. I love how even though he's dead, he's still supporting Katniss and encouraging her. I think that he knew that she'd eventually come to the decision to be the Mockingjay. And he wanted to do all he can to make sure she's dressed to a flair. And the outfits he's made her for this time are astounding.

HMN September 7th, 2010 12:10 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by baseballblondie (Post 5604683)
Spoiler: show
Cinna. He has been my favorite character since he first showed up in Hunger Games. I love how even though he's dead, he's still supporting Katniss and encouraging her. I think that he knew that she'd eventually come to the decision to be the Mockingjay. And he wanted to do all he can to make sure she's dressed to a flair. And the outfits he's made her for this time are astounding.

Spoiler: show
Excellent point! He was a major character without even being there. I was surprised at how much foresight he had to continue in his work. It makes me want know even more about him now.


Quote:

Originally Posted by GrangerHermione (Post 5604681)
Am I the only one that DIDN'T like Mockingjay? Because I hated it. Vehemently.
Spoiler: show
And none of the characters seemed like themselves. Just card-board cutouts of what they used to be.... Katniss just bugged me the whole time. I never really liked her much, but in this one I disliked her even more.

Spoiler: show
When I first started the book I didn't expect Katniss to be so flat. But then when they brought up how she was smashed on the head with the wire coil by Johanna Mason then the whole out-of-it concussion thing made a bit more sense. I mean Thresh killed the career girl that way, so Katniss could have been badly damaged.

The characters for the most part felt different in this book, but I thought it was realistic.


Quote:

Originally Posted by GrangerHermione (Post 5604681)
Spoiler: show
(And did anyone else think it odd that Annie just sat there calmly right after the love her life was decapitated, when the reason she went insane in the first place was because her district partner was beheaded??)

Spoiler: show
I felt like Annie was probably at peace for the first time at the end of the book. It was the Capitol/Snow who scarred her and with them destroyed, and a new baby to consider, she probably felt safe for the first time.

But speaking of Finnick - how much did you love the secrets and understanding how much the Capitol really held over them. That the reason the Victors were willing to sacrifice themselves in the Quell was that they were under constant threat and/or abuse. They had nothing really to live for except a revolution.


Quote:

Originally Posted by GrangerHermione (Post 5604681)
Spoiler: show

Then the whole romance is covered in about three pages. And there's no emotion. Katniss is so detached. It's like she never really did fall in love with Peeta. He was just the one that was there to comfort her. And so she's like, "Okay, well, I'm all alone here and there's no one else, so I guess I'm in love with you." WUT. And then in the epilogue, all she does is talk about how she's depressed and her kids dance on people's graves. I understand that the war was devastating and horrible and all, but if we're going to have a "happy" ending here, can we at least end up on a slightly optimistic note? There were some lines that hinted at hope and happiness, but they were too smothered in depression and darkness to have lasting merit in the end.


Spoiler: show
I think you're probably upset because the story isn't a fairy tale or love story like it was set up to be. It turns out even though there is a 'happy ending' it's not so happy is it. It's really more of a tragedy than comedy in the classical sense of the terms. I don't think the ending is happy, but I didn't expect it to be after full on war. Peeta is the only hope mentioned at the end - and to me the love didn't happen in a traditional way. He 'crept up' on Katniss in the same way I think Annie 'crept up' on Finnick.


GinnyIsGenius September 7th, 2010 2:04 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HMN (Post 5604922)
Spoiler: show
They had nothing really to live for except a revolution.

I REALLY love that line, HMN. :tu:

GrangerHermione, I understand, in a way, why someone would feel that way about Mockingjay.
Spoiler: show
I can see HG and CF as of more entertainment value. Though they do have strong themes too, Mockingjay brought the themes and messages them to a whole new level. But with that, the entire series took a much deeper, realistic, powerful turn. The book should have felt different than the other two. In my case, though, I felt completely overwhelmed about what I was getting in return. It took me by surprise.

Collins really pushed for a war story, an accounting of the "horrors" of war, and she was very upfront about it. She didn't sugar-coated anything. Was it too much? :hmm:, maybe, maybe not, depending how one looks at it. I think that's understandable. For example, I'm not sure when I'm going to reread this book, not because I didn't like it, but because what it did to me emotionally. I don't think I'm ready to experience that again. Not yet. :lol:

But I did find the characters' responses logical, considering the setting of the story. The characters were intrinsically different because their circumstances changed them ... war changed them, turned them into what they became.

I think Mockingjay deserves a deeper look than the previous two books. I read this one time, and I always hold to it dearly: "What one gets out of the a book depends on what one bring to the act of reading".

I believe Collins went with a very clear idea of what she wanted to show us. Judging by all of our reactions (good and bad), I think she accomplished it. Us feeling gutted, hollow, vacant, getting that the ending it's not-so-happy-at-all ... I think that's was her intention. It was a grim ending for a very grim tale. I do agree that we didn't get much conclusion for a lot of characters, but I think Collins didn't want to take away for the main message of the book (though we were all craving for it at the end after that reading, :lol:)

About Prim's death in particular ... I couldn't disagree more. Prim's death is basically Katniss undoing, the conclusion of the inner transformation we have seen go through since she was reaped. This is what finally made Katniss the person she was at the end of this whole ordeal. How can that be pointless?

Prim was the reason Katniss even went to the Hunger Games! Katniss wanted to protect her. She sacrifice herself to save her sister. Events unfolded. Katniss was now fighting for a revolution, the final freedom. And even then it was out her control. Prim died. I think that's one serious contender for the most powerful moment of the entire series, in my book nonetheless. :D This was justified, IMO one that should have been fought, but no matter what side your fighting for, it's a high price to pay.

HMN September 7th, 2010 3:56 am

Re: The Hunger Games
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GinnyIsGenius (Post 5604969)
Spoiler: show
Prim was the reason Katniss even went to the Hunger Games! Katniss wanted to protect her. She sacrifice herself to save her sister. Events unfolded. Katniss was now fighting for a revolution, the final freedom. And even then it was out her control. Prim died. I think that's one serious contender for the most powerful moment of the entire series, in my book nonetheless. :D This was justified, IMO one that should have been fought, but no matter what side your fighting for, it's a high price to pay.

In addition to that,
Spoiler: show
to learn that the person who has engineered the whole revolution is the one to put Prim on the front lines and purposefully kill her - that was mind blowing for me. If Katniss had simply died as Coin wanted her to, Prim would have been safe. It was Katniss' knack for survival, and really Gale's hunting and trapping skills, that killed Prim. But without the death of the one person Katniss truly loved and wanted to protect, she would have done it all for nothing. It was Prim's death that forced the assassination of Coin. Without that there would be more Hunger Games (with Capitol children) and who knows what other kind of atrocities.


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